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TheGroundedAviator
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Post subject: Kit was just a novelty too Karnage. Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:47 pm |
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Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:14 pm Posts: 252
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I've talked about this before but I will once again in this way.
And that is I think that Don Karnage has a sense of humer and likes novelty's. I guess he found Kit's innocence, eagerness in flying and the fact he's a kid something of an amusing novelty.
For the record as well he showed a slight soft sopt for him in P&L so that may explain why.
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steet
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Post subject: Re: Kit was just a novelty too Karnage. Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:59 am |
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| Animation Source is my home! |
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Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 2:14 am Posts: 5743 Location: France
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So you mean that when the novelty wore off, Karnage didn't care much for Kit?
_________________ Webmaster of Animation Source, and more
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merrymolly
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Post subject: Re: Kit was just a novelty too Karnage. Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:56 pm |
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Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:26 pm Posts: 34
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Hmmm . . . I think Karnage maybe loved Kit in his own way and did see him as a son at one point, but hated it when Kit perhaps started rebelling and questioning the pirates' motives. So it might have been a very conditional love, as opposed to unconditional love which I believe Baloo had shown Kit  JMHO, of course 
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Kitckicker
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Post subject: Re: Kit was just a novelty too Karnage. Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:39 pm |
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Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 4:37 pm Posts: 28
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They certainly had a very interesting dynamic going on. Karnage, however, had a very narcissistic personality which made him eminently unsuitable as a parent or father figure. He lives to be adored and worshipped, entirely certain of his own superiority and unable to ever be wrong. His pirates do his bidding or they face his wrath.
Enter Kit, a young bright eyed orphan. Piracy still has a dash of the rogue to it, the romanticism of taking from the rich and giving... well, that's where it all falls flat, doesn't it? But to a young mind, that might have been a consideration that came too late. If anything, Karnage has /style/, and to a young mind fed up with society, style can substitute for substance.
Undoubtedly there was some bond there at first, potentially a father/son relationship but likely a hundred years out of date. Pirate and adoring protegé fits better, certainly during the latter part, when the magic of style has worn off and the reality of life has begun to sink in. Yes, Kit would have been privileged among the pirates, but in the end he would have been crew. In the air pirates, there's only Captain and crew, there is no room for even the slightest hint of equality.
Undoubtedly the pirates, and Karnage in particular, would have taught Kit much. Not all of it would have been positive. When around pirates, you're either helpful or a liability. Helpful pirates get a share of whatever scraps are tossed their way, liabilities earn themselves a long walk off a short cliff. If Kit is assertive and independent, it's certainly in part because of his time with the Pirates. It's almost certain Karnage would have been oblivious to all this, that his protegé was being forced to grow up and grow independent. Ironically, these very traits would make him unsuitable for the position of adoring, fawning and impressionable sidekick.
Had Kit not made his escape, he would have become a pirate. Perhaps given time he may have grown into something similar to Karnage, which is what I believe Karnage was aiming to do all along, but he'd not have been Kit. He'd have been Karnage's Successor, Karnage's Second in Command or Captain of Karnage's Air pirates.
With a personality as large as Karnage, there is no room for anyone else. Was Kit a novelty? I don't believe so. I believe Karnage truly believed he had found someone to take over from him a /long/ way down the line, and someone who would always affirm that he was right, that his plans were brilliant and that he could do no wrong.
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TheGroundedAviator
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Post subject: Re: Kit was just a novelty too Karnage. Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:37 pm |
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Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:14 pm Posts: 252
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Kitckicker wrote: They certainly had a very interesting dynamic going on. Karnage, however, had a very narcissistic personality which made him eminently unsuitable as a parent or father figure. He lives to be adored and worshipped, entirely certain of his own superiority and unable to ever be wrong. His pirates do his bidding or they face his wrath.
Enter Kit, a young bright eyed orphan. Piracy still has a dash of the rogue to it, the romanticism of taking from the rich and giving... well, that's where it all falls flat, doesn't it? But to a young mind, that might have been a consideration that came too late. If anything, Karnage has /style/, and to a young mind fed up with society, style can substitute for substance.
Undoubtedly there was some bond there at first, potentially a father/son relationship but likely a hundred years out of date. Pirate and adoring protegé fits better, certainly during the latter part, when the magic of style has worn off and the reality of life has begun to sink in. Yes, Kit would have been privileged among the pirates, but in the end he would have been crew. In the air pirates, there's only Captain and crew, there is no room for even the slightest hint of equality.
Undoubtedly the pirates, and Karnage in particular, would have taught Kit much. Not all of it would have been positive. When around pirates, you're either helpful or a liability. Helpful pirates get a share of whatever scraps are tossed their way, liabilities earn themselves a long walk off a short cliff. If Kit is assertive and independent, it's certainly in part because of his time with the Pirates. It's almost certain Karnage would have been oblivious to all this, that his protegé was being forced to grow up and grow independent. Ironically, these very traits would make him unsuitable for the position of adoring, fawning and impressionable sidekick.
Had Kit not made his escape, he would have become a pirate. Perhaps given time he may have grown into something similar to Karnage, which is what I believe Karnage was aiming to do all along, but he'd not have been Kit. He'd have been Karnage's Successor, Karnage's Second in Command or Captain of Karnage's Air pirates.
With a personality as large as Karnage, there is no room for anyone else. Was Kit a novelty? I don't believe so. I believe Karnage truly believed he had found someone to take over from him a /long/ way down the line, and someone who would always affirm that he was right, that his plans were brilliant and that he could do no wrong. I think at first he say his as a novelty and then as what you say he saw him as... well said!!
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TheGroundedAviator
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Post subject: Re: Kit was just a novelty too Karnage. Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:38 pm |
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Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:14 pm Posts: 252
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merrymolly wrote: Hmmm . . . I think Karnage maybe loved Kit in his own way and did see him as a son at one point, but hated it when Kit perhaps started rebelling and questioning the pirates' motives. So it might have been a very conditional love, as opposed to unconditional love which I believe Baloo had shown Kit  JMHO, of course  True, I think he did have a soft spot for him and this is a good way why.
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TheGroundedAviator
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Post subject: Re: Kit was just a novelty too Karnage. Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:39 pm |
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Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:14 pm Posts: 252
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steet wrote: So you mean that when the novelty wore off, Karnage didn't care much for Kit? No, he became something like what the guys who quoted after you said more.
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TheGroundedAviator
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Post subject: Re: Kit was just a novelty too Karnage. Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:40 pm |
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Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:14 pm Posts: 252
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I think a better wat too say it was he probably at first saw him as such but then saw him as something that could become great, but became his downfall.
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Kitckicker
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Post subject: Re: Kit was just a novelty too Karnage. Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:34 am |
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Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 4:37 pm Posts: 28
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Rather than 'a novelty', I truly believe Karnage looked at him as a successor.
Yes, he /treats/ him like a breathing part of his treasure hoard, and possibly that was because he thought Kit was quite rare. He was something to be shaped into future greatness. Not as trivial as a novelty or bauble, but not quite occupying that heart space a son does. Mostly, as I believe I've made clear in my earlier post, because Karnage lacks the empathy to care for anyone but himself.
Ultimately anything he did for Kit was not out of some sense of selfless altruism, but because it benefited him to have the kid around. A successor, a sidekick, someone who could hold a conversation without having to pause every five seconds to consult a dictionary. But in the end, Karnage was a criminal and was aiming to turn Kit into a copy of himself.
It's therefore ironic that his very training as a protegé made him independent and rebellious enough to break free from Karnage's influence. Undoubtedly this must have wounded Karnage on many levels. He had lost his successor, he had lost the investment of time and resources and he had lost one of the only people he could talk to. Possibly he felt some emotional loss as well, but as is often the case with criminal mindsets, his sense of loss sublimed into out and out hatred for the one who had shamed him. He'd been made to look the fool, and someone was going to pay.
Even if he was willing to believe that the intial escape was part of an elaborate scheme to prove his worth, to extort money from Khan and then return in triumph (to the greater glory of Karnage, of course), when it becomes clear that his successor is not going to fall in line, hatred devolves into outright murder.
Kit was not a novelty to Karnage, because Karnage never throws away any of his treasures. Even a novelty eventually ends up on the hoard, to be perhaps polished and looked at at some later date, but Kit he was perfectly willing to toss overboard.
Kit was his greatest failure, the living embodiment of his imperfection.
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TheGroundedAviator
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Post subject: Re: Kit was just a novelty too Karnage. Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:20 pm |
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Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:14 pm Posts: 252
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Kitckicker wrote: Rather than 'a novelty', I truly believe Karnage looked at him as a successor.
Yes, he /treats/ him like a breathing part of his treasure hoard, and possibly that was because he thought Kit was quite rare. He was something to be shaped into future greatness. Not as trivial as a novelty or bauble, but not quite occupying that heart space a son does. Mostly, as I believe I've made clear in my earlier post, because Karnage lacks the empathy to care for anyone but himself.
Ultimately anything he did for Kit was not out of some sense of selfless altruism, but because it benefited him to have the kid around. A successor, a sidekick, someone who could hold a conversation without having to pause every five seconds to consult a dictionary. But in the end, Karnage was a criminal and was aiming to turn Kit into a copy of himself.
It's therefore ironic that his very training as a protegé made him independent and rebellious enough to break free from Karnage's influence. Undoubtedly this must have wounded Karnage on many levels. He had lost his successor, he had lost the investment of time and resources and he had lost one of the only people he could talk to. Possibly he felt some emotional loss as well, but as is often the case with criminal mindsets, his sense of loss sublimed into out and out hatred for the one who had shamed him. He'd been made to look the fool, and someone was going to pay.
Even if he was willing to believe that the intial escape was part of an elaborate scheme to prove his worth, to extort money from Khan and then return in triumph (to the greater glory of Karnage, of course), when it becomes clear that his successor is not going to fall in line, hatred devolves into outright murder.
Kit was not a novelty to Karnage, because Karnage never throws away any of his treasures. Even a novelty eventually ends up on the hoard, to be perhaps polished and looked at at some later date, but Kit he was perfectly willing to toss overboard.
Kit was his greatest failure, the living embodiment of his imperfection. I agree, I ment when they first met, just a cabin boy but after awhile he proved too be of valu.
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TheGroundedAviator
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Post subject: Re: Kit was just a novelty too Karnage. Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:30 pm |
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Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:14 pm Posts: 252
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Another way I mean it is he joined up, most say when Karnage and co captured a plane and he was interested and allowed too join in some way, at first most thought of him as a kid but he proved himself that Karnage took him at his side.
Soon I bet he was disgusted by what they did.
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nose dive
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Post subject: Re: Kit was just a novelty too Karnage. Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 12:01 am |
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Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2016 1:10 am
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Karnage is very selfish and cannot take care of himself so he cannot be a father figure or husband without solving his mental health issue.
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