Animation Source Forums

I apologize to any mods for putting this in an incorrect place, but this is a MAJOR fan-image problem that needs to be addressed IMMEDIATELY. If this belongs in the Rant Section, just put it there instead.

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As an avid fan-image creator and a render-maker, I will admit that I do use other movie sources other than the Balto films for my renders, either for character builds or for backgrounds. I KNOW that I am not alone in this, and unless the creator gives credit to the original source on the image's page, there is no other way to know that certain renders use other movies in their renders. It takes a lot of hard work to create a render of the best quality for the site, but

As of a couple of days ago, I have received a PM from a mod [who will remain nameless as of current] that said that my renders were pretty, but some were deactivated due to the fact that a couple of them used other backgrounds and rendered characters that did not look like they were from any of the three Balto films.

My argument is that, honestly, the mods' ruling on this situation is unfair and completely sudden to me. I just heard yesterday that this is not the first time images have been deactivated, yet there is no rule on the fan-image send page that states that "all renders have to be completely from Balto movies." If this was so, then renders in general would be very boring and similar... just like the Balto Source website would if such a rule was made official by Steet [who should definitely have final say in this manner].

If any truce could be made with this situation, I would like to make a fair suggestion: Couldn't the renders be like the other fan-images and the fanfictions with official characters? If you have at least a certain amount of OFFICIAL characters in your fan-image gallery, could other backgrounds and rendered-characters be allowed then? I'm sure there could be other possible solutions, but I pray that the BEST SOLUTION would be for all deactivated renders for this reason alone to be reactivated due to wrongful deactivation and a mod's lack of following the already-slated rules on the site, and perhaps a full-blown apology from any mods that have done such a thing, either in the past or recently, to any members that have been affected by this misunderstanding. And actually, I don't see anything wrong with using other characters or backgrounds in renders; as long as it's Balto-related overall, it should be more than acceptable on the site - either with characters, fan-characters or background settings.

I do not wish for this to lead to some sort of mod rebellion [again], nor do I want to leave this site once again, as I have just gotten back into making renders for viewers to enjoy. I would appreciate hearing from any other BS members that have also had their images deactivated for this same reason, as well as any moderators that either are BS members and/or are a part of the staff for the site for their reasons, suggestions. I think it would be best to not have any hate talk or arguments amongst others, as I would not like to see this topic locked.

Thank you so much for hearing me out and I appreciate any final solution in this matter.

- Juuchan17

I personally think that it should be okay to use screenshots from any movie that has it´s own AS site. Like from Brother Bear or such. I mean, the 3 Balto movies don´t give us that much of a choice for backgrounds.

And you are right, it would get really boring if there would only be Balto material used.

I'm glad someone else thinks so. I know that Brother Bear/2, Bambi/2 and Fox and the Hound/2 do have some good scenery shots that would work well for renders... and the Balto films do too, but again, if we just limit it to certain movies or just the ones that are a part of AS, it would be just as boring as reusing the same characters for render sources. Also, it's hard to omit characters from a really good background sometimes too, so... it makes it necessary to use something else so that the focus is on your rendered character and not part of the original screenshot. It really looks bad that way. I think that as long as you give credit to the original source, no matter what it is, it should be allowed. Just as long as it's not a live-action or photo shot, like the rules obviously state.

Characters, on the other hand: I think that if it is a fan-made character that has ties to Balto in some way, no one should care about where the source of the character's design/render/etc. came from. But then again, Balto did have a fox, but it was very feminine and only in one scene. Not many Balto references for that, is there?

Thank you for your thoughts!

- Juuchan17

I have had this problem in the past as well. In fact, three of my current renders are deactivated for the same reason. Of course, if it is decided that they aren't allowed I am okay with that, but I wish it would be explicitely stated--and to be honest, I hope that ISN'T the case. I hope and wish that it will be allowed.

I am hoping that they will be allowed too... and that the mods, whoever they are for the images, could just make up their mind or just allow images to stay the way they are. Heck, at least it's HALF-BALTO - the backgrounds you used were from the series, right? Doesn't that count as a "Balto" fan-image? It was allowed before; what the heck is so different now that it wasn't questioned or deactivated months sooner? Explain, Mods... EXPLAIN~! [sorry, couldn't resist.]

Yet with fanfictions, weird stuff with different characters from different series ARE allowed, as long as "Balto" is in their fic gallery a certain amount of times or in the current story. Does that seem fair at all that words and images have such different rules? Heck to the no.

...but I digress. Thanks for your comments, Skul! Let us cross our fingers on this.

- Juuchan17

But guys, you're totally missing the point. This is a Balto site. Everything on it should be Balto themed at all times. Not only should your fanfics always have at least one Balto character in it, but so should half of your fanart gallery. And if we make the teensy weensiest leeway for these fan images, who knows what kind of monstrosities would be allowed. There'd be diversity, when there should be works presented specifically for Balto and Balto alone. That means that not only will we have characters that don't share a Balto character's exact physical characteristics, but we'd also show that fan characters are different from Balto characters. And why would we want that?

We don't want the fan images section to go flying off the handle now, do we? I mean, look at the Fan characters section. We're only allowed Balto-related characters. Every character, no matter how they look, whether they're red or brown or pink or green, have to have some kind of relation to Balto. We simply can't allow characters that wouldn't exist in the Balto universe to go running amok on this website! There'd be fan creations of them, like images and fanart. We can't have that!

Sorry guys, but it looks like Aleu's fox friend and your floppy-eared street dog can't fit in with characters like Twinkleweed because they have character bases from movies other than Balto. So it looks like you'll have to find another Balto site where characters like those would make sense to have fan images of.

/sarcasm

I can't decide if this is 'rant' or 'suggestion' worthy. I happen to agree with you, Juuchan.

At first I wanted to say that Steet is probably concerned about copyright rules
with different movies being used, but aren't renders themselves about the same?
That aside, I don't see why members shouldn't be allowed to use different movie backgrounds
and character builds as long as they relate to the source they are posting them on in some way.
Rest assured your concern is duly noted, and will be discussed. I can tell you already that some mods also agree with you.
And know we don't deactivate your images [or anyone else's] out of spite or the like, and if you do feel that way than I truly am sorry about that.

I received a reply from Steet: "I can see where the confusion comes from. In the site rules, it's specified "Non-related pictures" are not allowed, but it doesn't say what happens if there's a mix between characters/backgrounds from different films.

I would say that as long as the characters displayed are official characters, you can have a background from a different film."

It's rather cryptic, but I would say that this means that as long as you use source characters, you can also have non-Source-related characters in it....or that only other movie backgrounds are allowed....

He also said he'll PM the mods about this, maybe he'll be a little clearer then. At any rate, I'll let the mods agree on what this means. (Hey, at least now we have his official word.)

^ Very much that. You can have backgrounds from different movies,
as long as the render has official characters that relate to the source you're submitting to.
As you can probably tell, the PM didn't say much different.

The rules displayed on the site have been modified to clarify for future submitted images.

First off: Thank you, Skul for asking Steet about clarifying this problem. I still find it strange that he only seems to be answering quickly to you than to any other mod or more reliable member on here, but whatever...



Secondly: I'm glad that others do agree with what I am talking about. I mean, not everyone gives credit to some other characters from other movies or shows, yet if it belongs to another member on site, we do. Doing the same for the basis of a fan-character's design would make sense, regardless if it came from a Balto movie, some other movie/TV show or another person's free-to-use lineart.

Roi, I don't feel like any mods are deactivating my images out of spite; I think it's more out of the mods understanding the rule of "non-Balto renders" as what they believe it means... and it could means several different things, but it leads to a lot of misunderstanding when it happens to a lot of people from different mods for different reasons.

Hopefully, Steet's clarification of the rule will be better enforced and all of the fan-image mods will follow it fairly. I appreciate your support.



Thirdly: Hahaha, Cat. That's very funny.

Remember now that Balto is more than just wolves, dogs and people, thanks to the addition of the sequels [even though geese and polar bears were in the first movie too, so...]. There's bears, foxes, other types of dogs that aren't huskies or wolfdogs, birds, coyotes, moose and so on. Even you have made some interesting characters of your own, so you should talk.

I don't want to fight or anything, but I do agree that if they aren't something that would usually be connected to the Balto-verse, then it shouldn't be there... However, if someone wants a character to not look the Balto-style and make it unique, but still a species that would normally be in said Balto-verse, then why not let them... as long as credit is given to the original source piece?




Anywho, I hope that this situation is over... I have yet to check this new rule page for fan-images, so we'll have to see. Thank you everyone for your input, support and suggestions!

- Juuchan17

Thank you for understanding my sarcasm xD Foruntately or unfortunately we share the same issues with the situation, and yet different issues.

I feel that it's totally and completly and utterly and flabbergastingly meaningless to allow fan characters/fanart not related to Balto at all, and yet if your fan images have characters that relate to Balto but share the same body type as Kenai from Brother Bear, you absolutely cannot have it on the website. "Oh but the background is from Balto, see? They're from the same universe." "So? You used a base from an outside source." "But all these people are using Kay Fedewa lineart, and I can't use this?" "NOPE."

I fail to see the logic.

Very true. That should also be specified in the rules update [giving credit to where the background comes from as well as any line-arts].


It's actually very much that. In my view, you have to consider two things:

One: Mods in the past and made up their own rules, have been burned into the brains of some mods now, seeing as they were growing members with these rules.
It's a habit to break, but as you can see from Steet's recent rule change to the image backgrounds, we're working on it.
I don't see why you guys don't PM us with the problem rather than make redundant rant topics about it.

Two: Not all mods think alike. Not all of us are aware that some of the rules were made up when we were members and told different. Thus it may seem like we favor,
when it's all a misunderstanding. If you do truly believe that ONE mod is favoring one member or more over others, then by all means report it to Steet.


Sorry I didn't say that earlier. That's probably what I wanted to say, but my mind's not all here today. I'm very glad you don't think it's a 'spite' thing though.



We're still looking into that, and the PM Steet sent out should clear things up a lot for now. If further problems happen after today, you should feel free to PM any of us.

I will think about the PMing mods thing. I don't know all of the mods that well, but if you're one of them, I'll probably send ya a line.

And to answer the last part of part ONE: It's because of the second reason that most people don't ask the mods, I'm afraid to admit. But I don't really know if someone's being barraged by certain mods or not, only because I'm not on here that often. I just come here to have fun and show off my fandom and my own little adventures for Balto and his heritage based on the films. That's all.



I do too, Cat. It's stupid. Really really stupid.... but I digress.

And I saw the new change... Apparently, backgrounds that aren't Balto-related are okay... as long as a Balto character is in it. So... does that mean fan-characters - dogs, wolves or... oh wait, that's right... anything not wolf, dog or wolfdog aren't allowed here. DUH... The mods don't allow bears and foxes and other wild Alaskan animals even though they were clearly used in WQ, and it's just really really REALLY stupid altogether - aren't allowed in non-Balto backgrounds?

WHAT THE HECK.

You see this problem? THIS is now the part that needs to be settled.

To be honest, I've used Jungle Book characters for some of my fan-character wolves before, yet they're still very much on the site. Yes, the Balto Source site... the one that only accepts "Balto renders". I wonder if it's because I edit it enough that it looks passable enough to be Balto-esque? I dunno.... To me, this whole thing is just... frustrating still, even after the clarification of the background rule.

Anyone else wanna [attempt or try to] ask Steet about this? I doubt he'll answer me as quick as Skul's emails, but darn it all, I'll do it myself if I must.

- Juuchan17

Indeed I am [ the-team.html ]. I know Rio would also welcome any PM and help you (I wanna say the other mods would too, but his signature actually says it).

Awesome to know.

I'm feeling a little better about the render issue, but the only problem I have is... WHAT IF someone has a render with a Balto character.... AND another non-Balto character [render or not - I've seen some fan-images with official Balto characters and other non-Balto ones that are dogs, YET this is allowed. Cat has a couple of those up herself, and they aren't deactivated... They are just "collages", but they seem to break the rule by having NON-BALTO CHARACTERS.] in an appropriate background that works?

Explain that, if you don't mind?

I apologize if it seems like I'm attacking you with this barrage of questions, but it's the only way to make sure that there aren't any loopholes... because some rules don't seem to apply for all things that have been accepted on-site. I hope you understand.

- Juuchan17