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 Post subject: If you would "reboot" the series, what would you change?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 1:50 pm 
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That's a classic question when it comes to old shows, because many old shows have been "rebooted" by companies over the years, to span on multiple generations of children.

TaleSpin had a LOT of interesting material, so it'd be very hard to imagine Disney would not be able to do something that would attract the new generations too.

If you were in charge of doing a reboot of the series...what would YOU change?

---------------

IMO, there aren't too many things I'd like to change myself, because it was top notch and still is.
Still, what I would do is :

- ADD CONTINUATION. One of the only things I don't like about TaleSpin is the stupid RESET BUTTON pressed at the end of each episode. Of course it had some advantages, such as being able to watch any episode and understand it without requiring to have watched any other. (or missed any) But this is also very frustrating to not be able to see the characters evolve and remember about their past adventures...And yes, I would have liked to see Baloo & Becky having a closer relationship over the time. (as Jymn said, sexual attraction works, especially among the older crowd! :P )

- BETTER ANIMATION. Disney Japan and France produced VERY good quality animation, I can't say the same for the other animations teams, which often butchered the characters.

- NEW VOICE ACTORS. Unfortunately, this would be a must-do requirement, considering most of them have passed away :? Also, Kit and Molly would both need new voice actors because they were played by children who aren't anymore. Still, all of the original voice actors still alive should be kept (Sally Struthers and Jim Cummings mainly) As for the new voice actors, hire REAL animation actors, like they did for the original show. (not celebrities)

- ALTER REBECCA'S PERSONALITY. Just a bit. A lot of people didn't like TaleSpin because they didn't understand her character, found her too bossy, only interested in money and mean to Baloo/Kit. Of course, the real TaleSpin fans know it's not the truth, but the fact remains that most episodes were not written to show her soft spot, and that's a shame... It's a bit the same for Baloo, which acted like a jerk a bit too much too. (depends on the episodes, though)

- A BIT MORE MATURE. There are some episodes I don't watch often because they're a bit childish for my taste (ex : The Sound and the Furry) Also, making the show a bit more mature would allow to expand on matters like war, and could attract the older generation who watched TaleSpin without turning them away. BUT only a bit - the show should STILL be fun for everyone like it was originally, including little children. (I wouldn't like the show to be all-dark without any kind of humor, like I've seen too often in fanfics) I really think TaleSpin is exactly the kind of entertainment Disney currently lacks : something that can attract ALL the family (without being gender/social specific).

Aside from these, I would keep everything else - especially the characters, the art style, Cape Suzette, the Air pirates, the Thembrians, the awesome soundtrack, the varied scenarios, the fun, the mix between cheerful and dark depending on the situation.
Obviously, keep the traditional animation too, AT LEAST for the characters. I wouldn't mind them using CGI for the planes animations if that can reduce the required budget, BUT I don't want to see the characters in CGI.

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 Post subject: Re: If you would "reboot" the series, what would you change?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 3:53 pm 
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I agree with adding continuation. I like Gargoyles because there is no reset button at the end of every ep and the more complex plots appealed to my college-aged self (back when I first watched it, that is). On the other hand, the downside to Gargoyles is that it has very little humor. TS is preferable in that it had both humor and drama. Humorous lines are definitely more memorable and quotable.

New voice actors - this would be the part that would bother me the most. Watching these eps on and off for 21 years has ingrained the voices in my brain. Therefore, Ed Gilbert is Baloo, Lorenzo Music is Dunder, etc. Anything else just wouldn't be right, no matter how close they are to the original voices. Case in point: Tiffany as Judy Jetson in "The Jetsons Movie". *shudders*

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A BIT MORE MATURE. There are some episodes I don't watch often because they're a bit childish for my taste (ex : The Sound and the Furry)


I'm the same way, though you have to admit that "Grease and spoon 'em" is a great catch phrase. :)

Going back to adding continuity - this would allow the series to be a little more mature in making the characters' personalities more well-rounded and allowing them to grow and change. But that's what fanfics are for, right? To explore the 'what ifs'.

Honestly, I hope Disney doesn't reboot TS, because I think they won't be able to capture the spirit of the original series. My fear is that they'll turn it into some poorly written, overly moralized, CGI, After-School-Special-esque show I couldn't bear to watch. They probably wouldn't even let the air pirates have machine guns anymore. They'll have to shoot at the Duck with something harmless and PC, like bubbles.


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 Post subject: Re: If you would "reboot" the series, what would you change?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 6:55 pm 
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I may have Karnage finally arrested or killed (doubt it) in a final major showdown against Baloo, Kit and Khan. It'll make a good 'end of the series' multy part episode. I'd then have Baloo and Becky kiss and have Karnage fight his former cabin boy in a classic mano-a-mano style battle on the flameing Iron Vulture.


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 Post subject: Re: If you would "reboot" the series, what would you change?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:33 am 
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Ann29 wrote:
I agree with adding continuation. I like Gargoyles because there is no reset button at the end of every ep and the more complex plots appealed to my college-aged self (back when I first watched it, that is). On the other hand, the downside to Gargoyles is that it has very little humor. TS is preferable in that it had both humor and drama. Humorous lines are definitely more memorable and quotable.


Yes, you nailed exactly what I don't like about Gargoyles - I'm not really a fan of "so serious/dark" series. It really lacked humor, it didn't seem like a cartoon and it doesn't have the fun and memorable theme songs the other Disney Afternoon shows had :wink:

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New voice actors - this would be the part that would bother me the most. Watching these eps on and off for 21 years has ingrained the voices in my brain. Therefore, Ed Gilbert is Baloo, Lorenzo Music is Dunder, etc. Anything else just wouldn't be right, no matter how close they are to the original voices. Case in point: Tiffany as Judy Jetson in "The Jetsons Movie". *shudders*

Well it's not like there would be any choice. That said, I'm certain Disney would be able to find very suitable replacement voices, they (almost) always do. And I think you could give the job to Jim Cummings and he'd be able to do all the voices by himself and sound exactly right :lol:

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Honestly, I hope Disney doesn't reboot TS, because I think they won't be able to capture the spirit of the original series. My fear is that they'll turn it into some poorly written, overly moralized, CGI, After-School-Special-esque show I couldn't bear to watch. They probably wouldn't even let the air pirates have machine guns anymore. They'll have to shoot at the Duck with something harmless and PC, like bubbles.

Well I disagree with this, for two reasons.

One : It would depend mostly on the people behind the project. As demonstrated by the great Darkwing Duck comics being released, it is possible to stay faithful to the original show and bring it to the new generations of children, while keeping almost everything intact, and still make it a success. Of course I still think TaleSpin comics would be much more realistic and faithful to the original show than a new TV series, but who knows...I believe Disney never really tried to remake a single cartoon, so we just have no idea how they would do it. I think the real reason why the cartoons nowadays aren't good isn't so much that TV programming does not allow to show violence or anything, it's more because they're too focused to make shows for one specific gender/age group - and THIS is what limits their creative freedom.

Two : EVEN if it would be bad, this would allow the entire world to remember the original series. Just look at a franchise like Transformers for example - since the movies have been released, the DVDs for the old series have been released (all, I believe), there are several new monthly comics including one that take on the original series, there are new merchandise, there are many fans talking about it on the web, etc...And the same for every other old cartoon that has been revived. My Little Poney, Yogi Bear, Thundercats...

I really miss that there isn't ANYTHING new concerning TaleSpin nowadays. We are only a few active fans, whereas there were hundreds years ago (when I didn't know about the series so I missed all that) and there aren't too many fanfics being written now. Everyone is slowly forgetting about it, the new generations will not even know what TaleSpin is (they already don't), do you really think this is what we want? To let this awesome show become totally forgotten over the time?


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I may have Karnage finally arrested or killed (doubt it) in a final major showdown against Baloo, Kit and Khan. It'll make a good 'end of the series' multy part episode. I'd then have Baloo and Becky kiss and have Karnage fight his former cabin boy in a classic mano-a-mano style battle on the flameing Iron Vulture.

It seems interesting of course, but I have a major problem with this : it would seem classic and unoriginal. And TaleSpin was all but classic!

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 Post subject: Re: If you would "reboot" the series, what would you change?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 6:14 am 
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it doesn't have the fun and memorable theme songs


I'm afraid I have to disagree with you there. I think the Gargoyles theme is great. Very powerful.

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Well it's not like there would be any choice. That said, I'm certain Disney would be able to find very suitable replacement voices, they (almost) always do. And I think you could give the job to Jim Cummings and he'd be able to do all the voices by himself and sound exactly right


Yes, I realize that the voices would have to be different, sadly enough. And Jim Cummings probably could do most of the voices!! It sure would be a task more worthy of his talents than doing commercial voiceovers for the Hallmark and THIS stations.

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there aren't too many fanfics being written now


True. Even I'm slacking off, but I did write a new short fic (plug, plug) based on my previous reply.


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 Post subject: Re: If you would "reboot" the series, what would you change?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:21 pm 
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I'd add the backstory of few sky pirates, especially of Mad Dog. I can't stand the fact that this character is misunderstood! (don't forget 'bout his friend, Dumptruck). ;)


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 Post subject: Re: If you would "reboot" the series, what would you change?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:47 pm 
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steet wrote:
- ADD CONTINUATION. One of the only things I don't like about TaleSpin is the stupid RESET BUTTON pressed at the end of each episode. Of course it had some advantages, such as being able to watch any episode and understand it without requiring to have watched any other. (or missed any) But this is also very frustrating to not be able to see the characters evolve and remember about their past adventures...And yes, I would have liked to see Baloo & Becky having a closer relationship over the time. (as Jymn said, sexual attraction works, especially among the older crowd! :P ))


I admit I'd like to see a bit of continuity, I was kinda bugged how they kept showing Baloo warming up to Becky and then trying to high tail it with the Seaduck the very next episode. Also was Kit's background with the sky pirates ever mentioned again?


steet wrote:
- ALTER REBECCA'S PERSONALITY. Just a bit. A lot of people didn't like TaleSpin because they didn't understand her character, found her too bossy, only interested in money and mean to Baloo/Kit. Of course, the real TaleSpin fans know it's not the truth, but the fact remains that most episodes were not written to show her soft spot, and that's a shame... It's a bit the same for Baloo, which acted like a jerk a bit too much too. (depends on the episodes, though)


Not sure about that one, since the usual direction for softening a female character is to turn them into a generic straight man, I think one of Rebecca's charms is that she is almost as comical and obnoxious as Baloo and is allowed to make a near equal amount of mistakes. I admit there are times her jerkass moments are a bit too profound though I could say the same for Baloo as well (eg. compare A Touch of Glass to Save The Tiger for example). In contrast I would have liked more moments where Kit got to act more bratty and rouge-ish, like he was established in the pilot.

Ann29 wrote:
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Well it's not like there would be any choice. That said, I'm certain Disney would be able to find very suitable replacement voices, they (almost) always do. And I think you could give the job to Jim Cummings and he'd be able to do all the voices by himself and sound exactly right


Yes, I realize that the voices would have to be different, sadly enough. And Jim Cummings probably could do most of the voices!! It sure would be a task more worthy of his talents than doing commercial voiceovers for the Hallmark and THIS stations.


I dunno. Cummings is a great VA but he sometimes falls short with some of his replacement roles. He already does a LOT of Jungle Book/Talespin characters, he did a so so job of Bagerrha and Hathi in Jungle Cubs for example though his Louie and Kaa were pretty much spot on. Similarly he sounds great as Winnie the Pooh but a bit iffy as Tigger. As versatile as he is he has a very distinctive tone that can be heard in nearly all his roles to some extent and that means some of them don't quite sound enough like the original.

Oh get Frank Welker for Dunder, looking at The Garfield Show he can replicate Music's voice near perfectly (and I'm sure he done a few roles in the show anyway).

As for animation, as long they try to replicate the original cel style rather than the current 2D CGI 'cutout' style that's becoming popular.

Oh, one other thing, maybe have more 'moment in the spotlight' episodes. I think it was mentioned before that some episodes centred less around Baloo's perspective may have helped develop the supporting cast a bit more (similar to Flight School Confidencial for Kit). Don't demote Baloo to an extra of course, but maybe have a bit of variety with who is the main star every now and then.


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 Post subject: Re: If you would "reboot" the series, what would you change?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:05 pm 
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True. Even I'm slacking off, but I did write a new short fic (plug, plug) based on my previous reply.

Where can we read it?

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I admit I'd like to see a bit of continuity, I was kinda bugged how they kept showing Baloo warming up to Becky and then trying to high tail it with the Seaduck the very next episode. Also was Kit's background with the sky pirates ever mentioned again?

I don't think Kit's background was any more developed than what's mentioned in Plunder & Lightning, at least in the series. There is a comic that gives a lot more details though, "The Long Flight Home" : http://www.animationsource.org/nogui.ph ... m=9&numg=6

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Not sure about that one, since the usual direction for softening a female character is to turn them into a generic straight man, I think one of Rebecca's charms is that she is almost as comical and obnoxious as Baloo and is allowed to make a near equal amount of mistakes. I admit there are times her jerkass moments are a bit too profound though I could say the same for Baloo as well (eg. compare A Touch of Glass to Save The Tiger for example). In contrast I would have liked more moments where Kit got to act more bratty and rouge-ish, like he was established in the pilot.


I said "a bit", like reducing the "jerkass moments" you mention...I think there's a limit to what makes a character likeable or not, and sometimes (fortunately not too much) that limit was breached in TS in a few episodes.

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I dunno. Cummings is a great VA but he sometimes falls short with some of his replacement roles. He already does a LOT of Jungle Book/Talespin characters, he did a so so job of Bagerrha and Hathi in Jungle Cubs for example though his Louie and Kaa were pretty much spot on. Similarly he sounds great as Winnie the Pooh but a bit iffy as Tigger. As versatile as he is he has a very distinctive tone that can be heard in nearly all his roles to some extent and that means some of them don't quite sound enough like the original.


Yes, that was a joke, I don't think having Jim Cummings doing all the voices would be a great idea, even as good as he is :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: If you would "reboot" the series, what would you change?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:02 pm 
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Where can we read it?


It's the last chapter of "Plane Parts and Pieces".


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 Post subject: Re: If you would "reboot" the series, what would you change?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:59 pm 
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Thank you Steet for the link to the Long Flight Home comic. Just wondering what year that comic book was issued? In the very back of it there is a section for writing questions to "WildCat." I wonder if the magazine still answers questions? The magazine must have been published prior to email becoming popular because there is only a snail-mail address given to mail questions.


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 Post subject: Re: If you would "reboot" the series, what would you change?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:13 am 
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Rodney_KC wrote:
Thank you Steet for the link to the Long Flight Home comic. Just wondering what year that comic book was issued? In the very back of it there is a section for writing questions to "WildCat." I wonder if the magazine still answers questions? The magazine must have been published prior to email becoming popular because there is only a snail-mail address given to mail questions.


Yes, that one was released during the show's first airing, so I think it was 1990/1991.

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 Post subject: Re: If you would "reboot" the series, what would you change?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:55 am 
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steet wrote:
Quote:
I admit I'd like to see a bit of continuity, I was kinda bugged how they kept showing Baloo warming up to Becky and then trying to high tail it with the Seaduck the very next episode. Also was Kit's background with the sky pirates ever mentioned again?

I don't think Kit's background was any more developed than what's mentioned in Plunder & Lightning, at least in the series. There is a comic that gives a lot more details though, "The Long Flight Home" : http://www.animationsource.org/nogui.ph ... m=9&numg=6.


It was nice the comics acknowledged it though it was odd how the series sorta just forgot about that aspect in later episodes though, the pirates don't even seem to recognise him and he actually seems like a perfectly well adjusted kid in most later episodes. It seemed like he should have had more trouble fitting in to me, since he was used to being a rogue and being with a rough crowd.

steet wrote:
Quote:
Not sure about that one, since the usual direction for softening a female character is to turn them into a generic straight man, I think one of Rebecca's charms is that she is almost as comical and obnoxious as Baloo and is allowed to make a near equal amount of mistakes. I admit there are times her jerkass moments are a bit too profound though I could say the same for Baloo as well (eg. compare A Touch of Glass to Save The Tiger for example). In contrast I would have liked more moments where Kit got to act more bratty and rouge-ish, like he was established in the pilot.


I said "a bit", like reducing the "jerkass moments" you mention...I think there's a limit to what makes a character likeable or not, and sometimes (fortunately not too much) that limit was breached in TS in a few episodes.


Yeah, it wasn't too overdone but I think they should have better kept balance. ie. a jerk but a likeable jerk.

steet wrote:
Quote:
I dunno. Cummings is a great VA but he sometimes falls short with some of his replacement roles. He already does a LOT of Jungle Book/Talespin characters, he did a so so job of Bagerrha and Hathi in Jungle Cubs for example though his Louie and Kaa were pretty much spot on. Similarly he sounds great as Winnie the Pooh but a bit iffy as Tigger. As versatile as he is he has a very distinctive tone that can be heard in nearly all his roles to some extent and that means some of them don't quite sound enough like the original.


Yes, that was a joke, I don't think having Jim Cummings doing all the voices would be a great idea, even as good as he is :lol:


I know you were joking, I just wanted to give my two cents on Cummings, being the buzz kill I am (now who would like to hear an amusing story about a bridge?...).

Speaking of Cummings' characters though, what would become of ol' Louie, especially since it was Cummings' enterpretation that offended the Prima family in particular.


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 Post subject: Re: If you would "reboot" the series, what would you change?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 1:07 pm 
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E-122-Psi wrote:
steet wrote:
Quote:
I admit I'd like to see a bit of continuity, I was kinda bugged how they kept showing Baloo warming up to Becky and then trying to high tail it with the Seaduck the very next episode. Also was Kit's background with the sky pirates ever mentioned again?

I don't think Kit's background was any more developed than what's mentioned in Plunder & Lightning, at least in the series. There is a comic that gives a lot more details though, "The Long Flight Home" : http://www.animationsource.org/nogui.ph ... m=9&numg=6.


It was nice the comics acknowledged it though it was odd how the series sorta just forgot about that aspect in later episodes though, the pirates don't even seem to recognise him and he actually seems like a perfectly well adjusted kid in most later episodes. It seemed like he should have had more trouble fitting in to me, since he was used to being a rogue and being with a rough crowd.


I think we would have had answers if there had been a season 2...Because the reason why there's not much about Kit's past is because Plunder & Lightning was written AFTER many (most?) episodes.


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Speaking of Cummings' characters though, what would become of ol' Louie, especially since it was Cummings' enterpretation that offended the Prima family in particular.


Well they could hire someone else who would do a worse job ON PURPOSE (yeah, I know it's stupid, but that would probably be the only solution!)

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 Post subject: Re: If you would "reboot" the series, what would you change?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:27 am 
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I'd like to see some more Jungle Book tie-ins. I guess having humans like Mowgli would be weird, but have they put Bagheera in it? I haven't seen all the eps. Am pretty sure that Shere Khan / Monkey King appeared in some form.

Also was there ever a cross-over involving Launchpad who we know from Darkwing Duck and/or Duck Tales (working for Scrooge) since he's also a pilot? I almost think I remember but it's foggy.


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 Post subject: Re: If you would "reboot" the series, what would you change?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:57 am 
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tyciol wrote:
I'd like to see some more Jungle Book tie-ins. I guess having humans like Mowgli would be weird, but have they put Bagheera in it? I haven't seen all the eps. Am pretty sure that Shere Khan / Monkey King appeared in some form.

Also was there ever a cross-over involving Launchpad who we know from Darkwing Duck and/or Duck Tales (working for Scrooge) since he's also a pilot? I almost think I remember but it's foggy.


Bagheera isn't in TaleSpin, but Shere Khan's pilots are all based on his model. Jymn Magon (creator of the series) said that there was no point in including him considering he was the mother figure in Jungle Book, and there already was one in TaleSpin (Becky)

And no, Launchpad isn't in TaleSpin either (and it's rather strange that so many people on the web think he is, very often people confuse Rescue Rangers / TaleSpin / Darkwing Duck and mix them)
But that's no competition, we already know who would win :P (because Launchpad isn't a very good pilot, and I'm not talking only about the landings)

I suggest you watch the show again if your memories are unclear! Because, believe me, it's really worth it and has aged better than most Disney Afternoon shows :wink:

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