Animation Source Forums

Okay...I am probably going to be castigated by several blind followers of those who long have held sway here on Animation Source and, though most won't believe it, have been directly responsible for a great deal of bad politicking and drama that has made us ALL miserable.

Tonight, in the Balto Source shoutbox, there was a lot of very ugly and childish behavior over the news item steet posted on the sites. Particularly about my unbanning. I will leave out the details, because I am NOT looking for an argument or flame war (did everyone get that? HMM?), though I have no doubts that someone will try to start one in here, and then lay the blame squarely upon me (as happened rather ad nauseum in the shoutbox tonight).

There is no one to complain to about what happened in the shoutbox tonight, as some of the mods who could be said to be directly responsible for that section were party to what happened in there tonight...and several members. Steet is sick of it all (the drama), and I can't say I blame him, because I have been sick of it for a long time, especially seeing as I have often been wrongly blamed for sparking a lot of it off (though I think some of the things he said in his news item are not in keeping with the facts of the case which brought this all about). And I will be flamed for saying that too. However, steet is the boss, his word is final. I can live with that. I have no CHOICE but to live with that. None of us do.

But there has seldom been a more blatant and horrid display of immaturity, bullying, cajoling, blind loyalty for all the wrong reasons, and tearing apart of Animation Source than occurred in the Balto Source shoutbox tonight, and it is a shameful legacy. It demonstrates the dark side of a certain percentage of the membership of this site (including some of the staff), and the way people will engage in vicious behavior just to further an end or to make someone else feel small.

If this topic is locked, it changes nothing. If it is deleted or the material is removed from this topic, it changes nothing. If I end up being banned for simply stating this, I think it proves my point, and the membership needs to be seriously concerned. If there EVER is to be a cleaning up of Animation Source, and the site is to get back to being what it once was, then the house needs serious cleaning and purging, and fresh blood needs to be brought in who care most about Animation Source, and not their own egos and blind loyalty to one person or small group of people.

In truth, I do sympathize with steet. It is not easy to run a site of this size, and deal with the often petty drama that occurs here (as online behavior is quite often very unpleasant and manipulative). But it's high time those who have really dragged the site down make room for a fresh infusion of blood, and those members who throw out ugly behavior without checking the FACTS, in order to simply participate in a nasty conversation, need to learn to behave with more civility and maturity.

If you quit contributing to the drama Steet would have less to worry about no?

Had you quit getting into so many arguments Togo would never have banned you and thus all of this mess would never have happened.
Now people are angry, Togo has left and you playing "innocent" is not going to wash that over.

Frankly, I don't care what your perspective is. The facts in that topic speak for themselves. But that is extraneous to the kind of terrible nonsense that occurred in the shoutbox tonight, and it is telling that several mods even contributed to it instead of trying to put a stop to it.

People bring arguments. They do that a LOT on this site. And for some reason, people LOVE to argue with me because I have strong opinions. That is not my problem, nor my fault.

A funny thing is, the Staff (and practically AS in general) was never so haywire and dramatic until you came back and started arguing. People contributed instead of trying to stop it, yes. However, that is no exuse for /you/ not trying to stop /yourself/. By Togo banning you he tried to stop the conflict from continuing because appearantly there were many who didn't know how to stop themselves from hitting the Reply button. I'm not blaming you for causing every arguement, but it's plain to see the true drama started as soon as you came back. Since day one. AS was calm (besides general drama one the BS shoutbox, which is pretty much normal), the staff were running smoothly, and everyone went about their own business. What happened to the "change"? You seem to have been acting the same way you used to be.

What people do not understand is that JC has always been a voice of reason and wisdom on this site. People have accused him of many things. Yet he has persevered at great cost to his public image. I think when people begin to understand how stagnant and inefficient things can become, they will begin to appreciate what he has done for this community. he has fallen victim to a number of things, and I think I know why.

An enemy, friendly, or neutral party would never dispute his command of language. He can use it to great effect. Because of this, he is well equipped to put forth his opinions and observations. He has this down to such an art that, quite honestly, you could be RIGHT about something and still LOSE the argument or dispute by a significant margin. Because of this, people have developed defense mechanisms to marginalize him, which have proven effective because he is severely outnumbered and, going back to before, people do not understand him. People fall back on "blank checks" from their friends, who are all too willing to pick apart his words and demonize him. There are mods who put the blame on him for disputes within the forum. Because of his rhetoric he is accused of attacking and trolling other members. Some mods employ an all too common tactic (which is not restricted to this situation), of entering a topic with a dispute and saying something to the effect of "calm down guys/you all need to stop", implying that everyone is the problem. Many people have fallen victim to that dumb unwritten policy, but again JC is often the bigger target. Generally, people think they can gain the upper hand over him by employing underhanded guerrilla tactics like hiding behind positions, friends, and flawed logic. Incredibly, these tactics have proven to be not enough considering certain recent happenings.

You guys can blame him for the drama. He does rock the boat, but the universal failure to understand or care why he does so is almost criminal. Internet drama comes with its own implications, but have we fallen so low as to assume that none of it has merit? That anyone responsible for it is a troll, a problem member, or an attention-deprived individual? I have a feeling that most of the people who have openly targeted this man, those who insisted on never fighting him on his own ground, but from their sandcastles of flawed logic and mob rule, will one day understand what he does and why he does it. Maybe they will look back and think to themselves - We need more people like this. The world would be a better place.

It is worth reading and addressing, this much I can tell you.

You asked if we have a say in this. The simple answer is no, we don't. But I will elaborate.

Sometimes on this site, things do get fixed when enough people start to voice their opinions. Sometimes the outcome is liked, sometimes it doesn't do enough, and sometimes it's downright resented. A good example of resentment is the sparkledog ruling. But regardless, people don't really have a say until things get vocal and the status quo is upset because of it.

I took the time to look up that 'conversation' on the ShoutBox and couldn't believe it. (Well, I could because I've been here for a while and know how a lot of people's heads work. -.-) One of the things I noticed was people freaking out and blaming you for Togo leaving. That was his choice, his decision, and as he couldn't let go of a grudge to do his duties, I was not sorry at all to see him go. And then when people started using rather foul language (some of them who are supposed to be moderators - the people that are supposed to uphold the rules) I didn't really see much done by the other mods to make it stop.

When some people said that you had deserved the ban, they really showed some ignorance there. (And no people, that's not a rude term. If you don't know what it means use the dictionary. -.-) In the topic that you had been banned for "fighting" it wasn't even you that 'started it'. You had been stating an opinion and someone else attacked you. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, people, but last time I checked the rules stating an opinion isn't against the rules. And neither is standing up for yourself when someone attacks your opinions again and again without getting a reprimand themselves.

Really, people need to put on their big boy/girl panties and get over their stupid grudges. If you say something they don't like (though I don't think I remember you ever being flat out rude - even when we ourselves had stupid fights), then they can just ignore it. If they can't... they probably don't belong on a site like this anyway.

This might be a tad jumbled. ._. Lots of thoughts that aren’t really working with each other and trying to make them not sound too dumb.

Ok, I am sick to death of this rubbish.

I don't even see why JC was banned in the first place. He has the right to defend himself and his opinions when posting on the forums, right? I can understand sometimes things can get a bit touchy, yes. Yet because he did dare to defend his opinion he was banned. How this even happened in the first place, I have no idea... he didn't insult anyone in his posts, or really attack them. The tone, maybe, but really -_-
Then blaming him for problems. JC was not the problem. The problems were there and maybe JC's actions were the trigger to them escalating, sure. That isn't necessarily a bad thing.

It was Togo's choice to leave, if you're suggesting JC somehow magically forced him to leave, you obviously do not understand the concept of choice in the first place. Togo could have stayed if he wanted to, but he chose to leave. Trying to pin the blame on someone else and saying that they forced him to leave smacks of butthurt and drama importing. If you have some evidence to the contrary, show people so they actually know what's going on (for once). He did a decent job but I think he should have retired a bit earlier to be completely honest.

And then we have the issue of Lucario. His behavior was totally out of line of mod conduct. He was rightfully demodded, I don't see however how he's still a staffer because he has proven he is unfit for the job, insulting and attacking members during a sensitive time for conflict was a very dumb move. He has shown his true colors now.

Yes, as you can tell, I am ANGRY. I have a quite extensive agger. I usually only pop in from time to time but it pains me that a site I loved from when I was a young teen has declined to this. That this has been allowed to go on for so long, and allowed to blow up in everyone's face. Deal with problems, consult with each other, be fair is what has been said for ages and ages and IT STILL ISN'T HAPPENING!


Some suggestions on what I think can be done

Step back as mod if you are going to be unable to deal with things in a correct manner (some have already done so)
Clear rules with lead mod, French mods, steet, BEFORE posting about it and having issues arise
Actually, clear up the rules in general
CHECK UP on people that are going to become mods, like past behavior and incidents, to make sure members are right for the job - extensively
When deciding on these new mods get some people who have some ideas and initiative to get things done, please
Let the ordinary members have more say in what happens - this has been happening lately which is good
Cut the corruption and bulldroppings
Let people have debates if they want as long as there are no problems
steet, please weigh in on rules and issues more so confusion does not happen

I agree to disagree if I must
I do not care if I am flamed for this
I will be disappoint if I am banned but if that is what is done, so be it
I will happily contribute my opinion and suggestion to help if that is needed
I know the mods have lives out of AS and respect that, but this is no excuse for complacency
I think it is time for real action, facing up to things, getting over petty crap, doing of the job. Discussion, decision, action and resolution.

Get serious, do it. I'll probably look back on this post and facepalm over parts of it, but for god's sake.

I am neutral so I am stating this ahead of time. This whole war between Jersey and The Mods, Togo, and everyone has gotten out of control. Both sides are to blame and no one is innocent. Here's my suggestion. Shut the site down.

I certainly hope that's a last resort, because lots of work has been invested for the sites to be a library of info and interaction, in fact, massive amounts. I'm sure a lot of people would hate to see it go that way.

Tibb, Colbatie, Ghost-Unit, thank you. That was very brave and magnanimous of you. Thank you! That lifted my spirits!

Zuko, actually, I think that what you posted in here is very thoughtful, and represents a clarity of logic often absent from this site. I realize you are neutral, and that is fine. I think what you posted here is better than your initial reaction in the shoutbox, and is a very handy illustration of the larger problems inherent in the site over the last year or so, which have been dragging it down. My compliments on your logic and your illustration.

As to the rest, and to this topic, I am now going to step away. I am sure this will continue until it is either locked or everyone is told to leave it alone. That is fine. What is needed now is for EVERYONE (including me) to back off and let things settle down for a while. It got VERY ugly, and I am being made out to be the one and only villian here...or at least the primary instigator (by a certain number of people who are going on loyalties to people rather than to the good of the site overall). Nothing could be further from the truth, and the conversation we have discussed here is ample proof of that no matter WHAT anyone says to the contrary.

However, if I discuss this too much more, it's not going to end well. So I am making a conscious choice to step away before it goes there. And if the beat down continues in here simply because I spoke up in defense of myself, and because some people spoke in defense of me rather than following the stinking crowd, it really doesn't matter one whit. This site WILL continue, and it WILL get past this. The site does not survive because of one person, or a small cadre of people. It survives because of the fandom of the movies it celebrates, pure and simple. And no matter who leaves (and no matter how or why), as in the past, the site will move past it and, in time, no one is going to care what happened here.

And that is the way it should be.

Sorry but this is typical rubbish.

It won't be long before more drama and arguments are caused and guess who will be right in the middle of it?
Yeah, OP.

And remember I'm saying this as a former friend of JC.
Simply because I disagreed with him he no longer gives a stuff about me or what I have to say and I am not the only person who he's done this to.

ALWAYS the voice of reason? Certainly not.
He's had times when he was just like anyone else but no one can deny that there has never been such an uproar over a member.
Not one single member ever has caused such a fuss to warrant Steet posting about them in the news!