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 Post subject: Dogs: A Necessary Guide
PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:14 pm 
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Introduction:

Alright, I've been wanting to make this topic for a while.
First off, I'll go over what this will cover, and what it won't.

This topic will go over common misunderstandings, the correct way to deal with a dog, and etc.

It will not go over specific feeding patterns, etc. Only about dogs in general.

So many misunderstandings happen between the dog and human, and while watching a friend train her Siberian Husky for a competition, I realized how badly dogs are misunderstood.

Unfamiliar Dogs:

Alright, first we are going over how to greet or avoid unfamiliar dogs, near or away from home.

First off, refrain from walking up to one, and making direct eye contact. This can sometimes lead to the dog thinking you are challenging his dominance or authority. The best way to greet a strange dog is to stand partially sideways, and allow the dog to sniff you. You may then want to stretch out your hand, and see if the dog will permit you to pet him/her.

If the dog is owned by someone else, ask first. The owner will most likely know how the dog will react to unfamiliar people. If you are allowed to pet the dog, do not hug him/her. A dog takes someone directly above it's body as someone who has dominance over them. A dog will find it strange and threatening to have an unknown person asserting their dominance over them.

A Dog is NOT A Human:

Alot of us like to think our dogs share our feelings, however, this is not true. While they can enjoy and dislike things, they do not necessarily become jealous in the same situations as we do, and so on. Whatever we may think, dogs are not human, and probably never will be.

I'm not saying you're wrong, in wanting your dog to share feelings, but it's time you face reality.

Punishments:

Alright, many of us know when we punish a dog, they turn their head away, or lick us, etc. We fel bad for what we have done, thinking their feelinsg are hurt, and make up.

HOWEVER. They are not sad, they are only showing that they are submissive. When we go and make up, they take this as a sign of weakness, and think that they are now the alpha.

The Proper Way to Walk a Dog:

Many people allow the dogs to lead, and stop and sniff things at will. Often, the dog will act excited, or uncertain during these walks. They act this way for a reason. This is not the proper way to walk a dog!

If you allow the dog to lead, it will think of itself as leader. But since you are meant to be the dominant one in this 'pack', the dog is mislead.

To begin walking a dog, you should call it, then clip the leash/and collar on. Do not walk to the dog, make the dog come to you. Then you should have the dog sit by the door. This will send that message that you decide when it's time to go.

Of course, you then proceed to open the door. Make sure that you walk out first, even if it's only by a few steps. The dog should then see you as his/her alpha, and will follow you, most likely acting much calmer. If the dog tries to pull ahead, a small tug on the leash is best.

Make sure you walk with authority, and don't pay attention to distractions. If the dogs gets distracted and/or strays, make him/her sit, untill calm. Then resume your walk.

Growling Dogs:

In most situations, the best way to deal with a dog growling is to back off. But only if the dog in unfamiliar, or sick, or injured. If it is your own dog, or a dog of a close friend that knows you, punishment may be needed. Do not hit the dog, as this may only serve to make it angrier, and retaliate. Instead, make a harsh, short sound, and send a mean glare it's way. If it stops, then you have succeeded. If the dog looks sad, do not go and make up with the dog, for reasons in previous sections.

If they dog continues growling,you have not succeeded. Depending on the dog, you may then wish to leave it alone, if already submissive, or use physical punishment. Do not hit the dog to hard, or on the nose. The rump is the ideal place. A clicker, or a spray of water will also serve as a punishment.

Exersize:

Many think dogs get enough exersize by staying outside all day, and possibly playing with another dog. However, this is false. The dog get's slight exersize by running in the small confines, but not enough. This is why dogs need daily walks. I understand that some may be busy, which is why you should make plans for someone else to walk your dog. If the weather is bad, it's good to have your dog trained to walk a treadmill alongside you.

Closing:

I hope this guide has helped you bond closer with your dog in caring and understanding him/her more. If you have any questions, use my sources below, or PM me. Who knows, while I'm certainly not an expert, I may have an answer.

Sources:

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com

Other information I got was from my multiple books, or experienced dog owners/trainers.

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 Post subject: Re: Dogs: A Necessary Guide
PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:22 pm 
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Very well put... We do many similar things with our dogs, and it seems to work just fine. And you hit the nail on the head with approaching an unfamiliar dog. I have a rottie mix at home and he is very warry around strangers and hates being approached. You can tell because my friend approached him and he went for his neck. But when he approaches people he is just fine around them.

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 Post subject: Re: Dogs: A Necessary Guide
PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:23 pm 
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THanks for commenting CBB. And I think your friend might want to read this topic. XD

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 Post subject: Re: Dogs: A Necessary Guide
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 12:14 am 
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wolflover10 wrote:
Punishments:

Alright, many of us know when we punish a dog, they turn their head away, or lick us, etc. We fel bad for what we have done, thinking their feelinsg are hurt, and make up.

HOWEVER. They are not sad, they are only showing that they are submissive. When we go and make up, they take this as a sign of weakness, and think that they are now the alpha.


As a dog owner and lover, I can definitely appreciate the importance of being a leader to your dog - but I may be different to you in that I view a 'leader' as more of a role-model than a dictator. :P And I loathe the term 'alpha'. To me it screams 'I have no idea about dog behaviour but I'd like to think that treating my dog like a punching bag is ultimately what's best for him because it shows him who's boss!! Now he'll obey my every command!' Of course I understand that you may not think this way, but the term certainly doesn't make you seem informed, and any dog trainer worth their salt won't ever use the term 'alpha'.

As I said before, a leader to me is a role-model and a source of security, in the context of dog-owner relationships at least.
A leader isn't a dictator.
A leader doesn't dish out punishments.
A leader doesn't scare the hell out of their dog and say 'no thats ok lol its submission!!'.
A leader doesn't EVER give their dog ANY reason to fear them - or 'submit' to them if that's your thing.
and finally, a leader doesn't need to assert that they're the leader. There are no special behaviours you have to ritually perform so that your dog doesn't forget. You ARE allowed to show kindness and sensitivity - your dog won't take it as weakness! They won't try and be the leader! They'll take it as kindness - dogs are smarter than you think. And when you treat a dog with kindness, you earn its respect, and that's when you become the leader.

I'm my dogs' leader. They respect me, they listen to me, but I don't know whether they submit to me because the concept of 'submission' has been so twisted through misuse by pretend doggy-experts. If by 'submission' you mean 'respect for me' then they definitely do. If you are instead referring to behaviours such as lowered body posture, rolling over etc. then no, they don't do that. I wouldn't want them to, because it implies that they lack the confidence to approach me in a way that's natural for them. I understand that other people encourage these behaviours in their dogs, and TBH I can't understand why they'd do that. I'd like to pin it on a lack of education on dog behaviour.

wolflover10 wrote:
If you allow the dog to lead, it will think of itself as leader. But since you are meant to be the dominant one in this 'pack', the dog is mislead.

To begin walking a dog, you should call it, then clip the leash/and collar on. Do not walk to the dog, make the dog come to you. Then you should have the dog sit by the door. This will send that message that you decide when it's time to go.

Of course, you then proceed to open the door. Make sure that you walk out first, even if it's only by a few steps. The dog should then see you as his/her alpha, and will follow you, most likely acting much calmer. If the dog tries to pull ahead, a small tug on the leash is best.

Make sure you walk with authority, and don't pay attention to distractions. If the dogs gets distracted and/or strays, make him/her sit, untill calm. Then resume your walk.



... Dogs don't care who walks through a door first. LOL that's probably the stupidest thing I've ever heard. I guarantee it will have absolutely no effect on your dog's behaviour. I'd like to know where this information is from.

They also don't care who's walking in front of who. It won't make them 'dominant'. Good lord.

A 'small tug on the leash'? I'm assuming this is meant to be some form of positive punishment, something the average dog owner is too stupid to use and any knowledgeable dog trainer doesn't NEED to use. If my dogs pull on the lead, I encourage them to come back and reward them when they do. Positive reinforcement. The dogs associate walking beside me with something positive, and are far more likely to choose to do it again. Not rocket science ;)

If your dog is pulling on the lead, he's doing 100 things wrong. If you choose to jerk the lead and scold him, he has no idea what he's being punished for - completely counterproductive! Tell me which is better: telling your dog what to do and rewarding him for doing it, or punishing your dog and ending up with a confused, hurt dog who - this is the kicker - still has terrible lead manners?

wolflover10 wrote:
Growling Dogs:

In most situations, the best way to deal with a dog growling is to back off. But only if the dog in unfamiliar, or sick, or injured. If it is your own dog, or a dog of a close friend that knows you, punishment may be needed. Do not hit the dog, as this may only serve to make it angrier, and retaliate. Instead, make a harsh, short sound, and send a mean glare it's way. If it stops, then you have succeeded. If the dog looks sad, do not go and make up with the dog, for reasons in previous sections.

If they dog continues growling,you have not succeeded. Depending on the dog, you may then wish to leave it alone, if already submissive, or use physical punishment. Do not hit the dog to hard, or on the nose. The rump is the ideal place. A clicker, or a spray of water will also serve as a punishment.


Oh my god I cannot stress this enough... NEVER PUNISH A DOG FOR GROWLING. That is the WORST thing you can possibly do when dealing with aggression. If you do this and the dog stops growling, you haven't solved the problem; you've used a 'bandaid solution'. Has your dog stopped growling? Yep! Have you taken the time to work out WHY your dog is growling and attempted to fix the problem from there? No!

Growling is just a noise. There is nothing inherently bad about a growl - it's not hurting you, it's not a negative behaviour. It's a warning. If you punish your dog for growling, you'll end up with a dog who attacks without warning - because like I've said, you're completely failing to quell the aggression, and it is STILL there even if you can't hear it and aren't being warned about it. A dog who attacks without warning is incredibly dangerous, as I'm sure you can appreciate. And besides, glaring at a dog won't stop it growling. It won't make it 'submissive'. This sounds like the kind of crap Cesar Millan spews out.

And my final gripe... using a CLICKER as punishment????!!! Good lord, what do you think a clicker is FOR? I suggest you actually do some research into clicker training, because punishment is the LAST thing a clicker is used for. This just shows such a poor understanding of training and while I think it's good that you're trying to offer advice, you're not going about it in the right way and it's quite frankly dangerous how you're offering suggestions such as physically punishing a dog for growling.

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 Post subject: Re: Dogs: A Necessary Guide
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 7:00 pm 
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I admit, I made some mistakes. THank you for your critique, I will edit my post accordingly, although I can argue with a few of your points, mainly about the term, alpha.

I did not, in anyway mean it like you thought I did. I just thought I shouldn't use the same words over and over again. As for the part about kindness, I never once said it was bad to show kindness. ANd I don't think, in any way, that dogs are stupid or dumb, as you obviously think I do. I also never said to make your dog fear you, in fact, that's the last thing I would want. I own dogs, and I would hate it if they feared me.


I would appreciate it if you would re-word what you post in the future, also. THe way you put it was rather hurtful, and it made me feel stupid, and like I would disappear, and not reply to this, and just delete this topic, or have it locked. It was also rather rude.


As I said before, I admit I made mistakes. But I'm human, it's what people do. I made mistakes in my information, and obviously a owrded it in a way that made you post in the way you did. I am sorry for this, and I hope that this will not happen in the future, as it is embarrassing THans.

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 Post subject: Re: Dogs: A Necessary Guide
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 1:37 pm 
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This is great information! Thanks for sharing.

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 Post subject: Re: Dogs: A Necessary Guide
PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 5:56 am 
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I concur with everything that OwnedByAGoldenRetriever said before me. OwnedByAGoldenRetriever also made some very valid, very educated points.

However, I was also recently informed by a co-worker (who rescues animals and trains her dogs) that saying "Out!" in a gruff voice when your dog is doing something wrong will aid in correcting the behavior. If you say it soon enough after the behavior, the dog will connect the "scolding noise" with the former behavior. No water bottles. No "assertion." No potential "abuse." I was also told in the same discussion that saying "Out!" sounds like a noise the mother would make to her pups. Hence, the dog will realize it (in dog language) as saying "No!" or "Stop!"

Positive reinforcement is also a major plus. You want your dog to be "respectful," not afraid. Instead of hitting the dog, yelling at it all day, or putting it into the crate use a simple command (something to the effect of "No," I use "On by!" for my dog). Once the dog is showing good behavior, praise the animal. Show them that being good brings good things. Pats, treats, and coos. (I don't recommend using treats all the time. At that point, the dog will expect them. You have to have it so they don't know when, or if, the food treat is coming. But always include praise as a reward.)

Also, it's important to remember not to (unknowingly) reinforce a negative behavior. If your dog is growling at a friend (or stranger), for example, and you bring the dog close, petting and talking softly ("It's okay, it's all right"), this shows the dog that a reward comes from growling at strangers or being aggressive or over-protective with you. While you're not saying "Good dog!", you're not correcting the behavior, either.

Good dogs come from strong bonds and better training. Those animal trainers who train their dogs to do tricks (such as jumping over their arms, looping through their legs, or doing and obstacle course) have very strong relationships with their animals. And also, remember that training isn't "do it a few times and it's innate." Training takes a lot of time (often months), patience, and tolerance. Just because the behavior(s) doesn't improve after one training session doesn't mean that you've failed as your dog's trainer.

And with working with horses, I have found with my personal dog that training for about 20 minutes a day and then a reward (such as some fancy wet dog food or letting her frolic at the park directly after training) is also very good reinforcement. Instead of your animal dreading the sessions, they will know that good things come afterward.


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