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I'm curious about how people view Don Karnage because I noticed that Karnage is loved by some TS fans but hated by others, prompting me to make this poll. First, if you haven't already, read this editorial and also this editorial. Those are well written editorials that may be able to help one come to a decision.

So what do you think? Is he an irredeemable killer (or attempted killer)? Is he pretending to be ruthless so others will fear/respect him? Is he just a plot device? Does he have a sense of mercy or honor? Is he redeemable?

What are your thoughts?

I'm not sure; but from what I can see, he seems a lot more mean in the pilot (which suggests that killing is part of the pirates job) than in the series.
I don't know if that was the intention of Jymn & Mark to "soften" him a little, or if that may have been a Disney decision. Not sure if that was a good one in any case, I think he deserves to sound more dangerous in order to be taken seriously.

Well . . . I think that Don Karnage is not the one who can easily kill someone (psychologicaly). For example I still don't understand - why in The Ransom of Red Chimp episode he even did not hurt Louise Lamour (for making a horrible mess onboard The Iron Vulture, for attacking him . . .)? Maybe he's just pretending to be that ruthless, I think that if he will lose his crew and eqipment he can also became a pacifist. The only episode, when he's showing real cruelty is Plunder & Lightning

In my opinion, Don Karnage is NOT a redeemable villain, in my book, he's as redeemable as NegaDuck from Darkwing Duck.

No matter how many "good" qualities he may have, he can never be redeemed for his attempted murder of a very special twelve-year-old bear cub. (Kit)

What he almost did to Kit was unforgivable. Sure, I'll admit he's a funny character that I can get some laughs from, but I'll never see him as anything more than a villain.

I think that could actually be explained in the series logic. In P&L, he had a weapon that gave him a definite advantage. That made him more ruthless and dangerous. When he doesn't have an advantage, he's just like how he is in the rest of the series. That points to a character flaw of his.

When he threw Kit off of the Iron Vulture in P&L, he just wanted to get rid of Kit, not directly harm him. That fits into how he acts in the series; he just wants to profit from plundering, not hurt anyone in particular.

He's a pirate just to be a pirate, not because he's particularly evil.

Well he seemed pretty furious when he saw he was saved, though.

But yes, this could be a valid reason.

I haven't seen P&L in a while, planning on doing so in the next few days. Perhaps he got furious because Kit was saved by Baloo of all people.

I don't think Karnage had anything against Baloo before Plunder & Lightning...I'm not even sure he knew him. At least nothing shows the opposite.

Nothing against him in particular, but he did bump into a few times before in P&L and didn't like how he kept getting the upper hand. That would tie into Karnage's complex.

No. Sorry, but I really don't think he could be redeemed. Hilarious he may be, but he can be downright nasty when necessary. He just doesn't strike me as the sort of villain who could turn good.

Heh, I forgot about this post for awhile but I'm back now... So the last post was over a month ago... So what? Anyway...

As I expected, there are a wide variety of opinions on this subject.

Everything from:

To:

Personally, I think that Don Karnage may be somewhat redeemable. Just to clarify, by redeemable, I don't mean a good guy, I mean not a totally bad guy. (whereas: redeemable==”99.999...% evil” && irredeemable==”100% evil”) I probably should have made this poll on whether or not he has any nobility or honor at all or if he's just a cheap crook.

Aww, fiddlesticks! So I guess that means I should scrap my story where Karnage renounces his evil ways and becomes Kit's and Baloo's best friend and they go around righting wrongs and helping the underprivileged then, huh? j/k Don't worry, I have no desire to see him do a Heel Face Turn.

Although... It might be interesting for DK to lose his memory, just for a story or two... He forgets that he's a pirate... And he somehow ends up at H4H which takes him in... Antics ensue... But inevitably, the spell wears off, or he gets another bump on the head, (or whatever) and remembers who he is... Hmmm... Too much?


I agree that ordering Kit dropped from the Vulture into the ocean is a serious offense, but in my opinion, it isn't quite enough to push Karnage over the Moral Event Horizon. I pretty much support this viewpoint:


I found this research report, which i used as a source, that discusses the effects of free falls into water in great detail:
SURVIVAL OF HIGH-VELOCITY FREE-FALLS IN WATER (pdf, 788 Kb, 14 pages)

I don't think DK was explicitly trying to kill Kit since falls into water are survivable at 186ft.
(or 56.69m, or 100ft/s, or 30.48m/s, or 68.2mph, or 109.75km/h)
However there would most likely be some injuries sustained, such as contusions, and even broken bones and/or organ trauma.

Calculating survival and injury probability in this case depends on several unknown factors, like the height of the fall, the drag coefficient and terminal velocity of a 3'9" 12 year old anthropomorphic cartoon bear cub, as well as other factors, such as the orientation of his body (prone; lateral; supine; head first; feet first) while falling and upon impact. Body orientation influences things like the rate of fall and the types of injuries sustained (if any) upon impact. Neat, huh?

It seems to me that if DK really wanted to kill Kit, he would have taken a more direct approach... like using his sword for instance. Of course there's a chance the writers might have taken this route but decided against it because it wouldn't clear BS&P, but that's just my wild speculation.


I agree that DK is a plot device to some extent, and probably most of the inconsistencies and extremes in his behavior are due to the fact that many different writers wrote episodes featuring him, as well as the different storylines, as Ann says,

One could argue that he experienced a Villainous Breakdown when Kit turned against him in favor of Baloo and H4H, and also when things failed to go according to his plan in episode four. He is normally fairly calm and composed, but after Kit is saved, we see him screaming and jumping up and down in an apparently uncontrollable rage. (Pssst! Don! Plead temporary insanity! lol)

So while I definitely don't think he could ever be one of the "good guys", I still don't have reason enough to believe that he is totally evil and thus irredeemable.

Consider this hypothetical situation:

Suppose DK engages the Sea Duck over the open ocean far from land and regular flight/shipping routes, and during the fight, the 'Duck's radio is damaged so it no longer functions. After unsuccessfully trying to evade DK, the 'Duck is disabled and forced down, landing near the shore of a desert island. DK steals the cargo, which was his motivation for the attack as far as we know, and gloats over his victory. Seeing the 'Duck's broken radio and burned out engines, he laughs and jokes that he'll leave them to die a slow and painful death of starvation on the desert island as he climbs back into his own plane and takes off, leaving Baloo and Kit stranded.

I wonder, would the following seem out of character or require too much suspension of disbelief?

DK, while flying back to pirate island (or wherever), encounters a friend of Baloo and Kit, be it Louie, Wildcat, Rebecca, or even Wiley Pole, and warns them not to cross him, lest they end up like their friends... stranded on a desert island awaiting death by starvation.

While at first glance this may seem like a threat and/or a boast of his ruthlessness, it could also be taken as an indirect way of helping Baloo and Kit. Whether he realizes it or not, he is telling Louie or whoever that their friends are in trouble and need help.

Then again, maybe this is completely unrealistic. Maybe I've been too influenced by Hideo Miyazaki... where most villains fall in that gray area and "totally evil" villains are rare.

But either way, whether redeemable, irredeemable, or just a plot device, DK is a comical, robust character, who is well liked by many TS fans, including myself. (and he'll stay a baddie! lol)

I've enjoyed getting everyone's viewpoints!

Thanks!

If anyone has anymore comments or opinions, don't hesitate to post them!

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Nyet!!! Continue, you're not alone Comrade!