Animation Source Forums

Yes, I know this rant has been made countless times before.
Yes, I know there are members on here sick of seeing it. (Some because they're against it, some because they're sick of seeing rants and want to see the rule taken down)
Yes, I know there are reasons for the rule in the first place.
And yes, I know that this is going to be locked if not handled calmly. Or maybe just immediately by a mod against the matter. (I've seen that happen.)

To be honest, I don't care. It's still an issue amongst many on the site so it still has to be dealt with. Locking this topic automatically won't help. So please mods, at least read it and consider my point, and even give us members a chance to disuss the rule before locking. I'd appreciate that.

You've probably guessed by now that this is a rant against the both loved and hated rule #17. No debates on sexual matters. (Debates. I sometimes wonder how that turned into 'No saying you are gay! No having a gay character! Homo's are R-Rated! But whatever. Rules get bent or not worded correctly all the time)

However, it still makes me wonder why gays are brushed off as R rated and threatened to be reported by one member constantly (Let's face it. We all know who this one member is who is quick to jump down the necks of anyone who supports homosexuality and has actually been told off my mods in the end for overreacting over the slightest thing. Wow, big bracket) while heterosexuals can talk about their relationships openly in the shout box and other sections of the site.

I see an excuse used multiple times in response to these rants. "This is a site based on animated movies! No one wants to discuss homosexuality!" Well, believe it or not people don't constantly talk about Balto or TLK in the SB. In fact, you'll find that happens very rarely. We disuss things happening in real life, normal conversations. And yes, people DO talk about their relationships. Like it or not, it happens. So the theory that we all come here to dance and sing about lions and wolfdogs is out. You need to make the place more fair on others if you really want members to be happy.

Then there's the matter that it goes against Christian's religion. That may be true, and I'd be willing to grit my teeth and accept that. But last time I checked, we weren't allowed to discuss religion either. (Which brings me back to something that has me incredibly frustrated. The one member mentioned above recently reported Claire/The Lone Outsider for saying she supports homosexuality on her profile. Yet that member has stated in their profile, in quote, "I'm an extreme Christian". As well as another reference to Christianity that's a bit large to post here. He's not the only member either. I'd reckon about 20-30% of the sites members have said "I'm proud to be a Christian!" in their profile. So if you're going to ban Claire for saying she's a proud supporter of homosexuality, you'd better expand your banned box because you've got a lot more banning to do if you want to keep the site fair. Whoa, 'nother huge bracket) So why aren't you as strict with those discussing religion or spirituality as you are with homosexuals?

Another thing. You say you "...want to keep this site kid friendly'. I'm sorry, but I really struggle to understand WHAT is R-Rated about a gay relationship and would appreciate it if someone could explain that to me. (I'm being serious) As far as I know it's love, not gender. It's bad enough that there are hildren at school bullied for being gay, or called gay as an insult, why encourage them on here that it's a bad thing? Wouldn't you rather get them more used to it and help them realise that it's the same as a straight relationship?

I'd also like to bring to your attention this poll I made on deviantART. I have almost 200 watchers on there, so be sure to check back later tonight or tomorrow and see how many people vote that the rule has to go. So far 100% agree that it's unfair. I wonder what that means...

Of course, this is a rant on a public board. I'm open to discussion. Not so much to 'flame'. There's a difference. If you can handle the matter calmly, expressing your opinions without trying to insult anyone, then I'll respect that. If you respond with a rude, unnecessary and unhelpful reply, I'll ignore it. Simple as that. And to those who agree with me on this I do have something to say that is a good point on the mods part - If we can't even disuss the thought of the rule being taken down without arguing like we have in the past, there's no chance they'll get rid of it. So please handle this calmly. Try not to give them /reason/ to lock this.

And like I said mods, please give us a chance to discuss this before jumping in and locking it.

That's all I'm going to say. I could say a lot more on the subject but I'm not in the mood for writing a novel.
-Keilidh.

I agree With Kazzy Homosexuallity shouldn't be banned ..why i mean why don't you just ban the entire site all together i mean what your doing is rediculous there is homosexuallity all around us and im glad someone else besides me is standing up for them

(Copied my response on the poll - edited very slightly to make sense here)

"We've been over this time and time again here and even to the point of all the mods discussing removing the rule in the mod forums but no.
The rule stays. Period.

It's not because homosexual relationships are bad, wrong or R-rated - it's because 98% of Balto Source just cannot handle talking about a controversial matter intelligently and properly.
It always boils down into a huge flame war."

-End quote from poll-

"Controversial matter" includes sex, homosexuality, politics and religion.

While you are allowed to say "Hey I've got a boyfriend! :33" to one of your friends, start chatting with them about what you get up to privately and you'll be told to stop.
Same goes for homosexual relationships.
We don't mind if you're gay (not meaning you keilidh) but please respect the rule. It's as much to remian "child friendly" as it is to prevent other members bullying gay members. (Which does happen a LOT on other sites).

For the record, I voted "Yes. That rule is fair" on your poll.

(I respect what you've said in the rest of your post UK and acn't really argue with it. Which is why I'm quoting this, 'cause I do have something to say in response.)

Like I said in my original post, near the end of it, the main purpose of this topic is to see if members /can/ discuss it calmly. If itturns into a flame war then by all means lock it, and I won't complain about the rule again since it'd be clear the others against or for it aren't mature enough to handle it. But hopefully we can at least solvesome issues members have on here with the rule thorugh this.

But that still isn't fair i understand your rule too but its still insulting to homosexuallity i mean no one has to say they have a bf or a gf but it shouldn't be banned completly i mean i don't even think people ever say it on the sb sure the girls say they have bf and the guys say they have gfs but not once have i seen a girl saying she has a girlfriend or a boy saying he has a boyfriend i don't think it should be banned no one has even said anything yet about that on the sb so it shouldn't be banned i mean heck like some have seen on my profile that message isn't wrong its completly normal i was being respectful to both sides so i don't see why i must take it down nor should it be banned

Thanks.
I'd imagine that people will either ignore that part of your post completely and argue anyway or no one will say anything, thus not causing an argument and expecting that to be enough.

TLO:

I know of a few people on BS who -are- gay and I've also seen one guy say on the shoutbox that he was with his boyfriend. It does happen.

Homosexual people often prefer to keep it to themselves because they know it causes issues and really don't want to be the subject of people's jokes or the subject of a large fight. More things that happen an awful lot on other sites.
It's their choice whether or not to tell their friends but we'd prefer if it was kept to themselves in public chats. You don't see straight people start a conversation with "Hey. I'm straight. :}" so I don't see why a lot of people seem to think gay people do - and want to. :/

There's also the issue that this site is meant to be about animated films first and foremost, namely Balto and the Lion King, niether of which have gay content.
Save for fan-made stories about the characters which are not the same thing. Hence why that was also banned.

(No one remembers the huge fights about Kodi x Kirby?)

But you can't just ban it i mean im sure you do know gay people so do i and i have talked to them they have seen my reasoning why can't you and the other mods come on just drop it alittle if it appears on the sb i can understand that but don't get mad at people for saying how they feel on there profiles if people complain about it thats there problem you act as if it will go out of hand i have seen this before it sometimes does but not all the time come on UK give it a chance before you go making rules to things that haven't even happened yet

No problem and I hope people don't ignore it. Also by the way UK, you've responded to the possibility of the gay rule being taken down with a 'no'. Which is fair enough but it seems the rest of the post has been ignored. What about the issue's regarding people being allowed to disuss their straight relationships in the SB? It would only be fair to ban this too. And then my seperate issue. Claire is supposedly going to be banned for saying she supports homosexuality on her profile. Do the mods intend to ban every single member who says they are Christian on their profile too?

Finally situations lie the one I'm about to give as an example happen more often than you'd think. And it's not even about the /person/ being gay that offends this emmber. It's a fictional character. :/
Most of us know a member who has a lot of gay characters. One person asked her to describe her character. She did, then as soon she said "and he's gay" a certain member (I'm sure you know who I'm talking about. He's also the one I mentioned in the OP and as I' sure you also know, in reality he's the one with the biggest problem with homosexuality) jumped at her, telling her to stop disrespecting the rules. Asking if she'd ever learn? "Here we go again ", etc. It escalated into an argument not because a gay character was mentioned, but because so many members got annoyed at the one who overreacted. Even a mod had to warn him. So if the rule wasn't there in the first place he wouldn't have had anything to throw in her face.

I don't remember anyone ever being banned simply for saying they support homosexual relationships.
By that logic, I should also be banned.

Like I mentioned before, *I* don't have an issue with some guy saying "Omg -name-! Guess what?? I got a boyfriend! 8D" in the shoutbox. A lot of people do that.
Any further however and it should be talked about on msn/yim/aim/etc. or in PMs, exactly the same with straight relationships.

The whole issue of gay characters is much cloudier. Just saying on their profile "Orientation - gay" shouldn't be a problem but as has been demostrated far too many times and you spoke aboui it yourself then - others immediately start with "Omg! that's against the rules! Take it down NOW! Reported!!!".
More of an example people just can't handle it, same as politics and religion.

While I admit most really don't care either way, some do and care too much either way sparking endless fights and insults and frankly, I don't think it's worth it for the sake of saying your charrie is gay.
You don't have to mention it and even in fanfics it's easy to write it in without saying "lolol they're gay :3".
Too many people just use it because being gay or having a gay character is "cool" and "popular".

Not this again.


Look people. Everyone is equal. Everyone. They have the right to chose what they want to be. But there are some things that are simply socially unacceptable, and have been since the beginning of time. This forum has many young members, whose opinions and viewpoints can be swayed easily. Quite frankly, homosexuality is nothing to celebrate. It's nothing to defend unless members of the group are being discriminated against. Scientifically speaking, this lifestyle is a plague on any society. Society has a duty to discourage (not discriminate) such actions and lifestyles in the name of self preservation.

I do have my religious and moral beliefs on this issue, but to abide by the rules I shall not bring those into the mix.

(Beware. Many quotes.)


Trust me, it's happened. And it's happening right now. If Claire doesn't take down form her profile that she supports homosexuaity she's been told she'll b banned.And my issue with the religion thing is still being ignored? :/ Why can people say they're Chirstians but she can't say she supports homosexuality?


Notice that I said at the /very start/ of the post that I know this has been said many times in the past. The thing is - It' still an issue with many members.



Sorry, but that doesn't explain /what/ is socially unacceptable about homosexuality? Please elaborate.


Precisely. So if everyone is equal, why make them think that whilst heterosexual relationships are appropriate, homosexual ones are not kid friendly and shouldn't be discussed?


You need to come on the SB more often if you don't think members who are homosexual are offended by this.

Copypasta from the poll.

"Sora-kun from BS here.

I've never liked the rule. I don't think we should go out of our way to discuss it but if someone wants to have a gay character then why not let them? I've heard the religious response used. I'm a devout Christian and I'm for equal rights for gay couples. Hell, half my family went to protest Prop 8 (the California proposition that would define marriage as between a man and a woman in the state constitution)

And about UK's response: 98% of Balto Source can't debate their way out of a wet paper bag about ANYTHING. You could put up "do you like beef in your macaroni and cheese" and I guarantee you members will be tearing at each other's throats."

I want to emphasize "I don't think we should go out of our way to discuss it but if someone wants to have a gay character then why not let them?" We don't need to make a point about it.

All I'm really seeing here is "This isn't fair!", "This site is unfair!", "You're wrong!", "He's wrong!", "You don't have proof!" This is quickly going to spiral into a flame war... the topic is already coated in kerosene. It's only going to take a single spark to set it off.

I'm trying really hard to not post how exactly I feel about this on the most personal level. As a mod, I try not to get involved with flame wars as much as possible, and remain the neutral party. All I'll say is that we all at least should be aware that it happens, and accept that it happens. Keep your strongest feelings to yourself (at least on this site) and things should be fine.

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=25311&p=813966#p813966

Case in point: Stop ranting. It will never change before you (the members) show you are capable of handling the subject in a proper manner.


And I mean that; stop complaining on something you brought upon yourselves.