Cryptids, Unknown Animals

Godzillawolf · **Posted:** Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:20 am

Alright, as some of you might know, I'm a fan of Cryptozoology, the study of animals that are believed to exist but mainstream scientists refuse to accept as fact. A Cryptid is an animal Cryptozoologist try to prove is real. Bigfoot, the Loch Ness Monster, Yeti, and the Jersey Devil are some well known Cryptids. Mainstream Scientists don't consider it a science but why not? Isn't science the search for knowladge? This is what Cryptozoologists call the 'Redicule Curtain', people that do not believe in something mocking the ones that do or the normal people that have seen a Cryptid. This sad truth is, in my mind, why we haven't proven the existence of theses mysterious creature, people see theses things but out of fear of being mocked, don't report anything. Too man 'scientists' are closed minded people who can't believe in the unbelieveable. One of my mottos is 'If you can't believe in the unbelievable, how can it come to pass?' This thread is to discuss Cryptids and how they could or couldn't exist. Be respectful to others or I will report you.

Wingrunner · **Posted:** Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:02 am

I openly believe in cryptids and I often take a lot of crap from even my friends for it.

One example that's reinforced my belief is the coelacanth

If animals like this can still be alive today and go relatively undiscovered then who knows whats out there?

Godzillawolf · **Posted:** Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:33 am

JerseyCaptain wrote:

whitewolf17 wrote:

I openly believe in cryptids and I often take a lot of crap from even my friends for it.

One example that's reinforced my belief is the coelacanth If animals like this can still be alive today and go relatively undiscovered then who knows whats out there?

Because the coelacanth has been accounted for in the paleontological and zoological record...there is undisputed proof of its existence. So it was always theoretically possible that an animal living in Earth's oceans could have survived the various mass extinction events of the distant past. And that's been proven time and again.

However, the Yeti/Bigfoot/Yowie (and other forms of that, er..."cryptoid"), the Loch Ness Monster/Champ, the Jersey Devil, the Chupacabra and other creatures, which have not been proven by conventional science, are unlike what I noted in my last paragraph. There is no undisputed example of them in the fossil record, or in any zoological or paleontological record. Until that happens...if ever...especially when scientists, zoologists and paleontologists are able to account for various extant and extinct life forms - and even are able to discover new ones in the great depths of the Earth's oceans (when they seem unable to flush out a confirmed Yeti from the Asian mountains, or a Bigfoot from the northwestern forests, or the Jersey Devil from the marshy pinelands of southern New Jersey, or the chupacabra from the scrub deserts or jungles of Mexico or Central America, or the Loch Ness Monster from the much shallower depths of Loch Ness, or Champ from the same shallower conditions in Lake Champlain...well, you get the idea) - these "cryptoids" will remain forever the stuff of mythology, tabloid newspapers and campfire stories.

What if the Loch Ness Monster and Champ are Plesiosaurs? They're in the fossile records. There is a simple reason we've not found theses creatures, main stream scientists aren't looking for them. From sightings, Big Foot and the Jersey Devil are naturally skidish of humans, particularally the Jersey Devil, who can fly. Big Foot is a primate and thus would be intellgent, as is the Yeti, without a serious expedition into the mountians to find it, its nearly impossible to find an intellgent creature that doesn't want to be seen. Loch Ness has thousands of miles of unexplored underwater caves, of which only about 20 % are explored. Many of theses have air pockets and are breeding grounds for fish, if Nessies' species lives in theses tunnels, they'd rarely ever venture into the Loch itself, explaining why so few sightings have happened. I'll admit a few Cryptids are likely fakes but what about the ones that live in the Amazon or the Congo? Places that Mainstream scientists, should you ask them, will be willing to admit have a high possiblity to support unknown organisiums and yet they refuse to mount serious expeditions to search for them. Cryptozoologists only get paid if they discover something, they rarely ever find enough money to mount large scale expiditions. Yes, I did come prepared to debate when I posted this thread, but I'm hoping we can keep it friendly.

Godzillawolf · **Posted:** Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:03 am

I've always thought debate and discuss where about the same thing.

As to your statement about Nessie and Champ unable to be pleisiosaurs, there's the possiblity they've adapted to their evirnment. Scientists say it is likely that Loch Ness was once attached to the ocean, a group of Plesiosaurs could of got trapped, being they're reptiles and thus uneffected by salt/fresh water, they'd be fine and adapt. Then maybe man came along, Scottish legends say they were hunted at one time, maybe the creatures began to assiate humans with predators and thus moved into the caves. Theses caves have airpockets connected by various means to the surface, providing fresh water. Some of the cave that have been explored show signs the Vikings used them as burial places. So through adaptitation, it is possible for a Plesiosaur population to trive in Loch Ness with some natural things keeping them in check. Your turn.

Godzillawolf · **Posted:** Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:44 am

Its actuelly a theory of mine but I've researched it well by looking up the geography of Loch Ness, some points of the Loch are 104 fathoms deep. Logically, animals adapt, fish in lakes seek refuge in rocky areas and holes, such as a cave, if the creature followed the fish, they'd likely find an abondence. And as I said, only a small number of the caves have been searched. This is logical that if a creature lives in Loch Ness, the only possibilty for why it has gone unsited is that it goes into the caves, which it probably knows much better than we do. I will admit, you've got a point it might not be a pleisiosaur, but it, from the sitings has the appearence of one so it might be in the same family.

What about the Cryptids that live in very unexplored places that people haven't looked? Like the Mongolian Death Worm that lives in the Gobi Desert, one of the least explored places on Earth, and from sightings, only surfaces during the rainy season, two months a year. The window of opertunity and the area make this a very hard to locate animal.

Wingrunner · **Posted:** Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:19 pm

JerseyCaptain wrote:

No...it's not plausible. As to land-based creatures, like Bigfoot, there is just too much tech nowadays to detect such things for them to remain out of sight. No matter how "shy" they are. Other rare animals are shy of humans too. But zoologists regularly encounter them when they are looking. And yet, when serious efforts were made to LOOK for Bigfoot, and the Yeti (etc.), nothing came up. Not a trace.

I do have one plausible theory on bigfoot(the only one I believe). North America and Asia were once connected by the Bering Straight and that's how people first reached our continent. In Asia there was a primate called Gigantopithecus and it's the largest known primate to have existed and would be a likely candidate for bigfoot. Now, Gigantopithecus could have crossed into North America too meaning that there's a chance large primates did(and still could) live in North America.

As for the lochness monster and champ; I do think there's something in those lakes but I don't think it's a plesiosaur and since I don't want to waste more space I'll post a link that explains why I don't think it could be a plesiosaur:http://baltosource.timduru.org/board/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=16048&start=30

Godzillawolf · **Posted:** Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:51 pm

whitewolf17 wrote:

JerseyCaptain wrote:

No...it's not plausible. As to land-based creatures, like Bigfoot, there is just too much tech nowadays to detect such things for them to remain out of sight. No matter how "shy" they are. Other rare animals are shy of humans too. But zoologists regularly encounter them when they are looking. And yet, when serious efforts were made to LOOK for Bigfoot, and the Yeti (etc.), nothing came up. Not a trace.

I do have one plausible theory on bigfoot(the only one I believe). North America and Asia were once connected by the Bering Straight and that's how people first reached our continent. In Asia there was a primate called Gigantopithecus and it's the largest known primate to have existed and would be a likely candidate for bigfoot. Now, Gigantopithecus could have crossed into North America too meaning that there's a chance large primates did(and still could) live in North America.

As for the lochness monster and champ; I do think there's something in those lakes but I don't think it's a plesiosaur and since I don't want to waste more space I'll post a link that explains why I don't think it could be a plesiosaur:http://baltosource.timduru.org/board/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=16048&start=30

The only thing I must make a point of is that I have a theory Bigfoot is an evolvlution of Neanderthal, a subspecies of humans that lived along side us but scientists claim were driven to mountains and died out. I think they evolved into Yeti to adapt into their envirment and then, as you mentioned in your theory, could of crossed the Bering Straight land bridge and the North American varity became Bigfoot.

I also have something to say to Jerseycaptain. I understand your reasoning for not believeing in some of theses creatures but its that type of reasoning that has prolonged the amount of time it takes to prove a Cryptid is a real creature, only to a more extreme. You look for the proof, most scientists say there isn't enough proof to prove it but don't go looking for it, instead mocking those that do. Many animals were once considered Cryptids but were proven real, I'll explain one that perfectly shows my point. The natives of New Guinea told stories of what they believed was a small humanoid that dwelled in trees but walked on two legs when on the ground and was covered in redish fur, they called it bondegezou, which translates to Man of the Forest. Scientists, depsite regular sightings and even a clear picture, mocked this and anyone brave enough to go looking for it. It wasn't until 1994 this creature was discovered to be an arboral Kangaroo species. See my point?

Wingrunner · **Posted:** Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:22 pm

Godzillawolf wrote:

The only thing I must make a point of is that I have a theory Bigfoot is an evolvlution of Neanderthal, a subspecies of humans that lived along side us but scientists claim were driven to mountains and died out. I think they evolved into Yeti to adapt into their envirment and then, as you mentioned in your theory, could of crossed the Bering Straight land bridge and the North American varity became Bigfoot.

But neandertals were nowhere near north america and wouldn't have had the opportunity to get here. Also, gigantopithecus(which is the most widely-accepted animal to be bigfoot/bigfoot-relatedc) lived nowhere near neandertals and, they lived in totally different times and neandertals would have had to have de-volved to become gigantopithecus.

Godzillawolf · **Posted:** Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:37 pm

Neandertals lived in about Saudi Arabia or souther Europe, in my theory they'd treval to Asia to avoid our species moving into their turf, Scientists will tell you Neandertals moved to the mountians. To adapt to the climent, they grew fur, not a stretch because Neandertals already pocessed large amounts of hair, and it turned white to blend in. They grew more musclar and strong to fit the envirnment, as well as larger. Then they could've migrated over the Land Bridge to North America, like our species did, eventually becoming Bigfoot. Though you have a point with Gigantopithecus, a simular event could've occured with them. The main part of my theory is that Bigfoot's species began in Asia as the Yeti and mirgated to North America, as it is more plausable than the other way around.

Jake Razor · **Posted:** Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:59 pm

I believe in certain cryptids. Not all of them, but some. There are very few varieties which I will say categorically do or do not exist, but one which I am particularly fascinated by is the African "dinosaur" called Mokele-Mbembe. And Jersey, I have to say you're off about the Loch Ness Monster and Bigfoot. Nessie is a dead ringer for a plesiosaur, of which there were several varieties, and Bigfoot could easily be the "extinct" ape Gigantopithecus (sp?).

Godzillawolf · **Posted:** Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:13 pm

Dragon Tamer wrote:

I believe in certain cryptids. Not all of them, but some. There are very few varieties which I will say categorically do or do not exist, but one which I am particularly fascinated by is the African "dinosaur" called Mokele-Mbembe. And Jersey, I have to say you're off about the Loch Ness Monster and Bigfoot. Nessie is a dead ringer for a plesiosaur, of which there were several varieties, and Bigfoot could easily be the "extinct" ape Gigantopithecus (sp?).

I'm very intrested in that creature as well. The Congo is believed by many scientists to be a 'lost world' like thing, because in truth the envirnment has barely changed in a VERY long time.

Oh and Dragon Tamer, another one you might be intrested in is an Amazon cryptid called the Tapire-inauara, its a water dwelling creature that resembles a feline to an extent but lives nearly entirely in the water, feeding primarly on fish, it has several features that are unfeline-like quilties, including floppy ears that it uses like a Beaver's tail to slap the water to alert others of its species to danger. The stangest thing is it has hooves for hind feet and claws for the front. This makes scientists believe it might be an 'extinct' group of animals called mesonychids, which are distintly related to modure hooved creatures like horses, only they were carnavores and resembled bears, felines, and the largest resembled a Hyena. Scientists even believe that a family of them evolved into Dolphins and Whales. If Tapire-inauara is real and one of theses groups, it would be an amazing scientific discovery, as it would be the last true Mesonychid. Oh and Jerseycaptain, I have to point out this creature IS supported by the fossil record and an expadition has never been sent to search for it in one of the most remote areas on the earth.

Jake Razor · **Posted:** Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:52 pm

Godzillawolf wrote:

Dragon Tamer wrote:

I believe in certain cryptids. Not all of them, but some. There are very few varieties which I will say categorically do or do not exist, but one which I am particularly fascinated by is the African "dinosaur" called Mokele-Mbembe. And Jersey, I have to say you're off about the Loch Ness Monster and Bigfoot. Nessie is a dead ringer for a plesiosaur, of which there were several varieties, and Bigfoot could easily be the "extinct" ape Gigantopithecus (sp?).

I'm very intrested in that creature as well. The Congo is believed by many scientists to be a 'lost world' like thing, because in truth the envirnment has barely changed in a VERY long time.

Oh and Dragon Tamer, another one you might be intrested in is an Amazon cryptid called the Tapire-inauara, its a water dwelling creature that resembles a feline to an extent but lives nearly entirely in the water, feeding primarly on fish, it has several features that are unfeline-like quilties, including floppy ears that it uses like a Beaver's tail to slap the water to alert others of its species to danger. The stangest thing is it has hooves for hind feet and claws for the front. This makes scientists believe it might be an 'extinct' group of animals called mesonychids, which are distintly related to modure hooved creatures like horses, only they were carnavores and resembled bears, felines, and the largest resembled a Hyena. Scientists even believe that a family of them evolved into Dolphins and Whales. If Tapire-inauara is real and one of theses groups, it would be an amazing scientific discovery, as it would be the last true Mesonychid. Oh and Jerseycaptain, I have to point out this creature IS supported by the fossil record and an expadition has never been sent to search for it in one of the most remote areas on the earth.

Spare me the evolution mumbo-jumbo, but the rest sounds very interesting. I've done extensive research on cryptozoology, but I never heard of the Tapire-inauara. I have, however, heard about the Succuriju and the Mappinguari. Ever heard of them?

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Cryptids, Unknown Animals