Animation Source Forums

I need to get a few things off my chest. Do I expect mods to do anything about it? No. Do I expect people to listen to me? No, but it would be nice.

1) Stop asking me if my characters want to be paired with yours!!! D<

This is what you should do:

***Look at the FAN CHARACTERS section.
***Read their PROFILE. See if they already HAVE one, or if theirs are deceased, or NOT.
***If they don't? Feel free to ask me! I like when people want to interact with my characters!

But if you're going to ask me 2-7 times and I say no? STOP ASKING ME! Your character is obviously not suitable to mine OR I just don't want them to have one!

Don't give me excuses like "Well, my character is lonely" or "BUT I LUV DEM SO MUUUUUUUCH" or "My goldfish died today! Please??????? " Just say "Okay, thanks anyway!" and go do other BSerly things!

2) FTW is up with all of these wolves built like HORSES!? What are you, inspired by PearlEden or Lyanti something?? Are you inspired by someone who has absolutely no concept of FORM? Okay, lesson of the day?

*** THIS is a wolf skeleton http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g184/ ... wolf-1.png

*** THIS is a HORSE skeleton http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g184/ ... /horse.png

*** THIS is a human/wolf COMPARISON http://hippie.nu/~unicorn/tut/img/basic ... human.jpeg

Contrary to popular belief, they are all built VERY DIFFERENTLY. Its OBVIOUS from CHILDHOOD! How else do you think we can distinguish the difference between a dog and a horse????

3) What is up with the whole huge bony pawed wolves stuff? Have you even SEEN a wolf paw?

*** THIS is what a wolf paw looks like. http://imagecache2.allposters.com/image ... osters.jpg

*** THIS is what a wolf paw looks like http://www.everythingwolf.com/gallery/g ... ayapaw.jpg

*** THIS is what wolf paw BONES look like http://www.soappuppy.com/wolf/big/1paws.jpg

*** Wolf paws DO NOT look like THIS http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g184/ ... olfpaw.png THIS http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g184/ ... things.png OR THIS http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g184/ ... hings2.png

OH! And the dewclaws! They don't go all the way up to the ELBOW!

A lot of you friggen complain about Balto, a CARTOON, not being realistic?! Maybe you should complain about REALISM not being realistic! Then maybe I wouldn't rant about you either!

3) If your character Rayzur looks like this http://baltosource.timduru.org/img/gallerie1/25.jpg ITS NOT YOUR CHARACTER! Its Steele with a name change!


Okay I'm done.

I only noticed a few weeks ago that my anatomy was way too equine, but since I was trying to experiment with different styles I just put it to the back of my mind. You commented on my gallery saying that I shouldn't use horse references for wolf drawings. Seriously Cat, don't jump to conclusions. xD I had been drawing horses for almost 3 years before suddenly changing to wolves recently, but I've never took a tutorial or something on how to draw a horse with the intention of using it to help me with a wolf, I'm not that clueless.

Still the skeleton picture should come in handy for those who need to study anatomy, like myself evidently.

And for the bony paws, you have a point there, but these ones normally have a lot of detail put into them meaning that the artist obviously thinks that it looks good. And if they think it looks good and are drawing for their own enjoyment then...does it really matter if it's anatomically perfect?

I also share your sentiments with the whole "This character that is exactly like [insert balto char here]is mine" thhing is really annoying and not creative at all. I think the Fan Characters section should have a moderator or something to prevent this form happening.

Finally- I completely disagree with what you are saying about Pearleden. Like Darkcloud has pointed out she is a wonderful artist and I can't help but feel like you are exaggerating when you say "Has completely no concept of FORM?" Just look at the example dak has provided you with. Sure, the legs may not be perfect, but it's just off by a little bit.

I agree,it's ok if they want theirs to interact with your characters,but pairing them is strictly your choice.I'll be creating my character soon and I won't bother you about pairing.

If someone could move this to the rant section, that'd be great. I could've sworn I posted it there, but I guess not



And thats exactly why your wolves look like horses XD You don't see that they look like them because you're the one who draws them. Its difficult for an artist to pick out their own mistakes, especially when they don't even realize them.



Yes, it does matter, because young artists are easily influenced and if they learn from someone who doesn't practice proper anatomy, then they too will not understand it.



All of the legs, eyes, and paws are uneven in almost every picture. The legs are always of different length and thickness, when they should be almost exact to each other (and no, perspective is not an excuse) The eyes are always two different sizes. And any artist who knows anything about facial structure knows that no matter how far apart eyes are on any living thing, given they are not intentionally deformed, they are ALWAYS the same size.



Yes, and people use "style" as an excuse for poor anatomy all the time. I've only taken figure drawing for a semester, and even before that, I could tell she knows very little on proper anatomy. And no one should learn from that.



It looks like a wolf with human arms. And not a werewolf.

If it was her own wolf "species" I would let it slide. But they're not.

This would be better in the rant section. I honestly don't know what took the mods so long, but I'll just do this now.

Topic moved.

Cat, I'd like to be the first person to agree with you.

Look, people, whenever you start drawing a new (real) species, do you know what you should do?

Should you copy/reference Balto screenshots? NO.

Should you copy/reference other artists work? NO.

So what do you do? Well, contrary to popular belief, there are photographs of REAL animals everywhere on the internet. Here's some easy steps to finding a reference...

1. Google 'AltaVista'. It's image search engine is much better than Google's.

2. Go into images.

3. Uncheck 'graphics' but obviously leave 'photos' checked.

4. Type in 'wolf running' or 'wolf howling' or whatever you're looking for and...

5. BAM! There should be a few good refs on the first page at least.

And did you know that your pet husky, lab, GSD or setter can be a reference for wolf anatomy? Sure, your pet dachshund might not be the best reference, but all dogs have the same bone structure, just at different lengths. A GSD or husky (which apparently are the only known breeds of dog here) has almost the EXACT anatomy as a wolf.

So instead of sitting on your butt referencing poorly-referenced work, why not get a pencil and paper and throw the ball to Rex and see how REAL animals move.

And the 'it's their style' excuse... well, it's no excuse for poor anatomy. You can still have a distinct style without having to deform your character so it turns from a wolfdog to a a werewolf/thoroughbred mix.

Just remember, an artist's goal is to 'to create, then surpass your creation'.

-This rant was provided by VividLegacy

In most repsects, I must agree with you. But, I must ask you this: Should you penalize an artist for interperating what they believe is art, into their own "style"? I mean, think about this: few artists have "100% anatomically correct" drawings, including those with degress and professional crap.

But I must agree; some artwork of "real animals" is just too far out there! "Wolves" with feet as large as their heads, tiny little tails, and overly-skinny are just some prime examples. I mean; we can't expect a bunch of kids (the people here and a LOT of DevART inhabitants) to have the proper sense of anatomy. Especially for beginners. Why, back in the 7th-8th grade, my animals all had two legs, and were always viewed from the side. (It's a proven theory that, up until the fifth grade, a child will draw anything and everything -- once they get to about the fifth grade, they find their "niche" and keep doing that. Then, as they age, they expand more -- or don't, either way.)

I can't stress enough to any/all Artists of all kinds that using other artists' artwork as anatomical references is a BAD idea. Why? Who's to say that they have an inking about anatomy, either? Peoples' best bet is to look at Photographs (such as in educational books, wolf reservation sites, and so on) of the animal(s) they're drawing, especially wolves. But, they also have to take into consideration if the photograph(s) is/are digitally altered. The easiest way I would say, is to take some snapshots of a large dog (in real life, not relying on other Internet-goers), then compare it to a wolf, and go from there. Dogs such as German Shepherds, and especially huskies, are related to wolves -- and will have the same basic anatomy structure, but one will have to differentiate that, too.

Overall, basic structure is everything. For some reason, it's so easy to neglect! Of course, our art, Cat, isn't exactly anatomically correct, either. But, this also depends on the genre of drawing. Is it cartoonish, realistic, or a "mix"? Mine is a mix of realism and cartoonism; but other artists tend to have and either-or going on. [Insert shrug here.]

Overall, yes: it's true. But you also can't expect everyone to "follow the rules."

I agree with much, but even though I do try to make my paws look as realistic or believable as possible, it does take lots practice and I'll be the first to admit they don't look much like they should. And when drawing canines or equines I always learn from the inside out. Starting with the bones to learn how they move and are built.

I wasn't referring to your post or your drawings. I mean that total flaws in anatomy should not be excused by saying 'It's my style!!1!'.

And I'm not saying that it has to be totally realistic either. The animators in the first Balto movie actually studied the animals and then combined that knowledge with their drawing style and got wonderful drawings. But the same can't be said for the other movies.

And yet your anatomy is still better than most. XD



Style is an excuse for people who don't know. Trust me, if anyone says that "Its not bad anatomy, its a style" that's just a block for not improving their own skills. Which is what artists do. They improve.



Thank you. Everything you said made perfect sense. Thank you for being the first person to actually comprehend what I'm saying XD

And what some of you aren't understanding is that I'm not expecting change XD I said it in the first sentence. I just find it ridiculous that people are using TERRIBLE anatomy references or NO references when they don't know what they're doing, and at the same time, they complain that a cartoon isn't realistic, when realism isn't even realistic.

It takes YEARS and YEARS for artists to get anatomy exact, but it doesn't mean they can't come close and at LEAST get the BASICS (like making body parts even, for the most part, learn about light sources, perspective, etc). And its even worse when people decide to copy them and assume they're doing it correctly, when they're not.

Am I saying that people like PearlEden should change their style? No. If I had anything to say to them, its to keep their uniqueness, but actually give a crap about what they're doing, instead of just worrying how much their next commissioner is going to pay them, and just not even care if they improve at all. ANYONE who thinks like that puts art to shame. It doesn't even have to be about money.

I agree with a lot really.

I don't much like the weird looking bony paws, especially the ones where the toes look more like fingers. o0'
It does depend on what th artist is going for though. If they're aiming for realism then...they should look at some paw references but if they're just going for a mix of realism and some cartoony with some wonky anatomy thrown in - go for it I guess.

The horse bit though? Totally agreed. I just plain find it frustrating to look at a wolf picture that's got the same leg structure as a horse. The two animals don't even look alike!!
Just as bad is the animations or still "mid run" pictures that show a wolf or a cat running the same way a horse does... -.-
If your character is a wolf-horse mix (why? I don't know...) then fair enough. If it's your own creature with a mix of horse and wolf anatomy with something else then fine. Otherwise, you should really get some photo's to ref from.

The thing about so many character's looking like Steele, Balto or Jenna clones I find more annoying though. Just going through the fan characters section you can see that over 3/4 of them look.the.same!!
I also don't like the ones where they use a render for their character's picture and the ONLY thing that has changed is the ear colour or the toes are a different colour. Gah! NO! DX

Agreed, lazy animation really took off intrest on me.