Animation Source Forums

Recently a fanfic of mine was removed from the site. I know a lot of you have read it, and I never received any critism about it before, so I'm interested in your opinion. If the majority of responses are favorable I plan to send this to Steet and ask for the story to be put back up. All of my works build on each other, so the subtraction of one in the middle hurts the integrity of my entire series from then on. I will gladly e-mail the story to you if you want to read it to make your decision.

My Email is: [email protected]

Please note that this story does contain the following:

a love sequence, some bad language, a birth scene, the consumption of alcohol, and some violence. If you choose to read AFL understand that it contains this content.

The story in question is "A Forbidden Love".
Now, we've been down this road before. When Baltosepalla was here we had quite a debate about the "tastefulness" of some fanfics, and I was told then that my stories did not break any rules (AFL was posted at this time), however now apparantly one of them has. If you found the story to be acceptable please join me in my quest to get it re-posted.

The reason it is "unacceptable" is because of the "incest" relationship in it. Yes, Saba and Everest do fall in love, and yes they do have pups, and yes they are brother and sister... I know this subject is somewhat taboo, but I don't think that's enough reason for censure. It was good enough when it was posted, and it still should be. Aas a writer I can't stress enough how wrong it is to censure work without a clear reason... I personally worked on the "love sequence" for HOURS to make it clean and acceptable. I didn't describe it in detail, but you got the point. I don't like doing these sequnces in Balto, but for this kind of story there was not choice. I worked hard to keep it tasteful and recieved much praise for the story in question. If you liked it, please vote to the affirmative and help me in this endeavor. I REALLY appreciate it... I LOVE Baltosource. I was the eighth person to join the site, and have been with it since the begining I guess... I would never want to think of leaving, but if my work becomes "unacceptable" without good reason I will post it elsewhere. I do not and will never change to please someone else. The only reason I will change is if I feel that I need to, and I do not... your help is appreciated!

- RTW

Hey, I'm with you, buddy. I loved that fic, even if incest is wrong in my book. It was a great story with clearly hours upon hours of hard work put into it, and I would hate to have the rest of your stories make zero sense just because it made the minority group uncomfortable. So what if it had incest in it? It was not descriptive, nor did it ENCOURAGE incest. It was n/either for n/or against the subject, so since it's a neutral story, I see no real reason for it to be gone, and the same goes for any fanfic here.

I agree with you wholeheartedly Rotramel. In fact I was one of the people who said that 'A Forbidden Love' should stay on the site and that those who didn't like shouldn't read it.

In my opinion, I find the story to be no big deal and with it being gone, your story lineage makes no sense. Sure the past stories do but what about the future stories. Without this, the enitre saga is out of whack.

I know you must've spent many days working on this story to make it clean as possible and I believe that.

When I first read it, I'll admit, I was surprised but as I read it a few times over, I grew comfortable with it.

As Cat said, so what if it had incest in it. It wasn't descriptive or detailed so there's nothing wrong with it. And it does not under any circumstances ENCOURAGE incest in any manner whatsoever. The story is not against anything at all.

I don't wanna see this gone. I'm a fanfic moderator and truth be told it would bother me if I didn't see 'A Forbidden Love' in your gallery.

To make a long post short, I'm with you on this petition

I loved that story. Personally, I don't mind un-detailed incest in stories, even though I deem incest wrong in the real life as well (although, I respect people's choices for their love-life).

Just want to say, that I support you, pal.

i read the story and liked it but if it was wrong why did they take it down now. i say leave it up.

My own words do little justice for such a great story but like the others I think that the story should stay up, I mean how can someone even read it and want to erase it from the Source, even with the reason of incest?

I remember when I first read the description to that story, yes I did think "Eee! gross" but Rotramel said not to be put off by it as he was inspired to write it because of another story. As for me when I was done reading this story I was gobsmacked I really struggled to see what they did as wrong from their point of view, it changed how I thought I would have viewed it as something that shouldn't be allowed, I mean say if you were one of the town dogs and you just found out about the two siblings, well you would immediatley want them gone but if you would have read their story would you feel the same way?
Thats what the story did to me, I still know that incest is wrong for the pretty obvious reason but it's stories like these that were actually able to make me see the point of view of the two lovers.

As an extra this isn't the only sibling- love affair fanfic i've come across since reading it. Was this story taken down just cause there were to many and this one seemed to be the most open and direct? I hope not and I hope that whoever had a problem with this fanfic will really read it again and try to understand why it is such a great story.

EDIT: As a final point if you dont like it then don't read it, simple as that. Honestly it really really is. See when it says Rated PG-16 or contains following material such as... that some people may find inappropiate, then what do you do? Oh ok I'll tell you; you go "Hmm to be honest it really doesn't sound like my sort of fanfic to read so I think I'll give it a miss". See how simple that was?

What you dont do is go and read it knowing that you would already be going to report it Just Cause You Can therefore ruining everyone else's reading experience.
Free speech? lol good one...

I'm torn on this issue.

On the one hand, I respect you greatly as a writer. I read AFL and thought it was one of the best representations of those fics, written in good taste and everything. This fic, and others like it, were removed not because of any indecent scene, but because of the topic they covered.

Personally, I think it should be held up as an example of how to write such a story.

On the other hand, I can't make an exception for this fic. What about the other writers who wrote similar stories? It wouldn't be fair to them if I were to reactivate this fic and leave theirs.

Please understand, I don't agree with this. We have summaries, ratings, and warnings for a reason.

From what I see, if this continues, we won't even need the ratings system any more. All the fics will be rated G, all the stories will become repetitive, and all the endings will be happy.

Let's examine the definition of fanfiction. I've bolded the parts that, to me, are the most important.

fan fiction
Part of Speech: n
Definition: a fictional account written by a fan of a show, movie, book, or video game to explore themes and ideas that will not or cannot be explored via the originating medium; also written fan fiction, also called fanfic

Would Universal have made a sequel about Aleu and Kodi falling in love, or of Kodi and Kirby, or of Jenna cheating on Balto? Of course not! That, I believe, is left to the fans.

Fictional: A literary work whose content is produced by the imagination and is not necessarily based on fact.

To all those who are bent on opposing incest, gayness, or even cheating with the argument that "it's not in the character's personality," I'm not buying it.

No one can prove or disprove any Balto characters personality as they are all fictional characters themselves, with Balto being based on a real dog.

While I agree that certain topics are not appropriate for all ages, they have warnings and ratings for a reason. A reader who ignores these has no right to complain at all.

However, as I have seen, each deviation from the norm had been copied by other writers with less and less story-telling and more and more inappropriate content.

When it comes to the point where someone thinks he/she can send in a graphically-detailed Balto/Aleu smut fic here, something is wrong. (The fic never made it to the site (it was deactivated), but yes, it happened.)

Were all the writers on this site able to write with decency and good taste, this would not be a problem, but it seems the few who couldn't or wouldn't have ruined it for everyone.

I do not agree in limiting everyone because of the complaints of those who find such things utterly despicable even in fan fiction.
But, seeing as the rules do not allow gay/bisexual or other deviant sexual matters, I have no choice but to follow them.


-LWf

With A Forbidden Love gone how will this affect your story line or will it all have to be changed now

I know you're in a bad situation Lonewolf, and I just want to make it public that I am not in ANY way angry toward you.You have been, are, and I hope for some time to come, will be one of my greatest supporters and one of those that I look up to the most when I write myself. You're just doing your job. However, I propose a "meeting of the minds". I think that if a story seems questionable (I.E. If it's like AFL or Juuchan's Confessions) then we should post it on the forums first and run a poll. Yea or Nea. I think if the majority of the readers and writers who are members of the site agree that something is or is not suitable for the site that it should be allowed or not allowed. In other words, let's try the diplomatic approach. I have received 1 complaint about that story, and it wasn't because the reader thought it was inappropriate, it was because it violated the "rules". Had that rule not been posted then I wouldn't have received one negative comment about the story... I think we need to judge the fanfics not by topic or subject, but content. The movies are done that way. Not every action/adventure movie is rated R, just those whose content meets the criteria for an R... I mean, that's why we have Mods right? I understand Steet's position, as that subject seems very likely to lead to explicit stories... but I beleive my story violates none of these rules... So Steet, if you happen upon this post, please know this.

I have been a member of your site for almost five years now. I LOVE this place. I owe my life to this site, to my loyal readers, and ultimately to you. I won't go into the details, but it got very rough for me in Okinawa... my readers were the thing that kept me going... I had to finish my next story, couldn't leave them hanging could I? With that said I would never ask to post something on this site that I thought would hurt anyone in any way. The members of this site are speaking Steet, 14 -3 say that AFL was not offensive and should be re-activated. If it's a content problem then I will adjust, but if it's a subject problem... then I say it's unfair and unjust censure. AFL was acceptable to the site when it was written, and indeed, most say it is my best. As to the problem of what to tell other's who have stories like mine that were de-activated or rejected... let them post them on the forums. Let the readers and writers speak for themselves, and then make your decision. Please Steet, this is me begging at your feet for this story. I beleive in it's message (though incest is presented in the story and an "effort" seems to be made to justify it, the act is ultimately wrong and Saba and Everest are almost killed for it) It was a personal story and one of my personal favorites as well... please Steet, judge our work... our sweat and blood on content, not subject.

Thank You

A writer who would not be were it not for you,

- Anthony E. Rotramel
~ AKA Rotramel the Writer (RTW)

Rotramel, I'm backing you to the hilt. I know my buddy Aamplythikheyes supports you too. He don't come around here much anymore, but we're behind you. The heck with censorship, the scene wasn't that bad. I've read much, much worse. Rotramel, you're the best writer out there. Shine on, you crazy diamond, and don't let anyone stop you!

Dear Rotramel:

I was afraid of this . . . and it's not my fault either . . .

As one of the newest (I think . . .?) fanfiction mods on the site, I was actually one of the mods that was first told about this. I find it stupid that someone would want this story off the site now just because of the whole "incest" thing . . . most especially because it's been up for about a year too! I understand that the "brother/sister" thing is a bit much, but you have to admit, it does make for a much more interesting story (especially for your amazing storyline that you have created for the Balto characters, both from film and original)! I actually have written tales about this subject, and personally I see nothing wrong with it (only if the people don't know that they are related - there is a difference). Sure, it's not right, but with animals, it doesn't bother me at all. Breeders do that sometimes, so it's natural to them.

These are dogs, not humans, so drop all this drama, people!

I agree that losing this story just because of one person's lack of sense (mainly for not reading the very clear WARNING that you wrote on the summary . . . and you did mention the "brother/sister" thing there too) does interrupt your entire saga, mostly for new fans that arrive to read your fics. It sucks and blows, gosh darn it.

But also, as the one who was your main influence for the said story, I understand why others may not want it on the site: It deals with sibling love, and to many people today, it's not right -- but guess what? It's still happening all the time. I mean, these are animals, for crying out loud! In the wild, some animals do, in fact, mate with their relatives. Even people do it too, and although others look down upon incest, it still happens, even in today's awkward times. Besides, it adds that realism and drama that some of us readers like . . . and this story in question leads to a drastic turning point in the destinies of Rotramel's character arcs.

In a few words: Get over it. XP

Anywho, my opinion as both a writer and a mod is that I believe the fic should be allowed. Sure, it deals with a touchy subject, but I've read many other stories that aren't as good of a piece of writing as his fics are. Losing this story to Balto Source would be like losing a part of our freedom as fanfiction writers. Think about that, okay?

Besides, the only persons that I know of that have been offended by this story has also been known to be offended by other things that he/she believes is un-Christian (adultery, incest, other gods/spirits/deities/, etc.). Just because this one person doesn't like it, doesn't mean that everyone else should be deprived of this page-turning tale that Rotramel has woven. It's not fair, and that person should be ashamed of themselves.

I . . . gah . . . I can't think of anything else to say right now. I did what I could by telling the person the rules and still this happens . . . So much for writer's freedom, eh?

- Juuchan17

I read your post, Kodi, but I kind-of both agree and disagree with it. I won't go any further into that, and try not to drag religion into this

Anyways, this website was intended to be, and is, a kid's site, and this won't be subject to change. As much as I loved the story, I agree with the moderator's decision as well. Why?
Since the ratings aren't helping at all. It's just a warning message on screen, which any kid knows how to click Ok on, then they're free to read the story. Do you find incest a suitable subject for those children?

Finally, I found you. Listen, this may surprise you, but I would like to see it back up, with a few adjustments. Simply take your original story, and tweak it in one or two places to match the suggestions I've put forward. Make it a love story between (since you have told me that Steele having any descendants would not work), a dog and a wolf, or any other sort of acceptable (and I mean acceptable by the site's standards) couple which the surrounding society would deem unacceptable. If you simply remove the matter of them being brother and sister, there is nothing else wrong with your story, and I am sure I and your other... shall we say, "detractors," would find it very enjoyable. Then perhaps we can pull ourselves out of this lunacy and continue as friends, not enemies. You have told me that it is more about them deing considered wrong by others when their hearts told them they were right, so the adjustments should be easy to make without damaging your moral. And as I have said in your gallery, I am perfectly willing to help in any way possible. Please answer soon.

If you ask me thats not being helpful thats rubbing salt in the wound. You and your mates get his story off and hide behind a "Friendly" smile saying that You will do all You can by having Your ideas in his story, you seem to have missed the point of this tale, which even the title explains "A Forbidden Love" if it was just another basic love story 'Guy wolf meets girl wolf they live happily together' then the story would be greatly reduced, his whole future plot ruined and not that much of a thrilling read.

What we mainly want is the story back up but it doesn't look like it's gunna be allowed back without change so then I ask let Rotramel tweak it if he chooses and if not then so be it.

I'm just one of many who want it back so I have nothing more to say on this matter