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Maugrim
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Post subject: Oh - fantastic! Something to worsen their name. Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:10 pm |
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| Famous one |
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Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2005 3:05 am Posts: 1837 Location: England
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Tonight at 9pm the BBC are airing 'Paranorma' a programme about an undercover investigation of Pitbull fighting.
Fair enough.
But after reading the programme info they also talk about why the breed has been banned in the UK and about how they attack young children. It's going to give the breed an even worse name! Hopefully people will realize that it's the owner who's responsible for the dog's behaviour. Surely people will be able to see that with stupid youth who think they're cool to train a dog to become a dangerous weapon are to blame for their pet's behaviour!!??
I'm just hoping that they include how Staffies and Pitbulls can also be gentle, docile pets also. People on doggysnaps who own Staffies are getting really upset about the programme but their complaints have been ignored. Apparently there are Staffordshire Bull Terriers on the programme being called Pitbulls. People often feel differently about Staffies over Pitbulls.
I might watch the programme.. I see Pitbull fighting cases on Animal Cops. But if it starts to anger me then I'll switch it over. =|
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Lux - The Guardian
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Post subject: Re: Oh - fantastic! Something to worsen their name. Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:28 pm |
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| Famous one |
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Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 4:37 am Posts: 1624 Location: Norway
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Personally, I must say I agree... with the programme, and with you. Sure, pitbulls and that kind of breed is easier to train into a ferocious man-hostile beast, but they can also be very gentle and kind. It all comes down to the owner, which I also agree on. But personally, I don't like pitbulls. I've had several bad experiences with them myself, and I've simply learned to stay away from them.
Then again, I think they're being treated pretty unfairly by media.
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Letranger
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Post subject: Re: Oh - fantastic! Something to worsen their name. Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:54 pm |
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Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 6:40 pm Posts: 973 Location: Earth
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*Grr* No, not more Pit-bashing! But yeah, I don't like it when people refer to all the many Bully breeds as Pit Bulls. The American Pit Bull Terrier is just one breed. Bull Terriers, Staffies, Am Staffs, American Bulldogs, etc....they're all different.
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ShebaDove {wolf}
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Post subject: Re: Oh - fantastic! Something to worsen their name. Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:03 am |
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Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:14 am Posts: 2242 Location: Back in cold wet England, wishing I was in dear old New Zealand.
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Well I watched it-it did have stuff in it about pitty attacks on kids. but it mainly focused on how the ban had done no good at all, there are still just as many attacks on people esp kids. also it showed dhow easy it is to bring pittys into the UK despite the ban, they are just stated as different breeds ie boxer/retriever cross. and I agree with you about the stereotype tat effects all bully breeds. Bans do no good, and the punishments the guilty men got were pathetic. but it never actually said the owners were the problem  . personally I think bans do more harm than good-they just ban good people from having these dogs so the baddies have them, making them more dangerous. Save the pittys!
_________________ I am still ShebaDove {wolf} I had problems when I tried to change (it was too long). Now my it has changed back to my old one in some places on the forums but it is still ShebaDove {wolf} elsewhere! I will pm a mod about it.
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Maugrim
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Post subject: Re: Oh - fantastic! Something to worsen their name. Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:05 am |
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| Famous one |
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Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2005 3:05 am Posts: 1837 Location: England
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[ SEMI-GRAPHIC DETAIL, DON'T READ IF YOU'RE SQUEAMISH!!!! ]
Yes, I watched it too. It was called Panorama .. I got the spelling wrong ick.
It was really painful to watch. It featured all what Sheba said. I can't believe that all this still goes on! How can people be so sick!! Making two puppies fight! But the programme really did portray them as evil dogs. Seriously, they are not to blame. It's clear that it's the people and how they raise them. At this 'Dunkel Pitbull Kennel' in Finland, the dogs had boulders as toys. The BBC (undercover) bought a Pitbull from the guy there called Nipper and proved how easy it was to get the dog into Ireland then the UK as a 'Boxer/Lab mix'. Then they proved (despite the ban) how you could walk along a street in Merseyside with Nipper the purebred American Pitbull Terrier.
What peed me off the most was the fact that the people they caught involved in Pitbull fighting, including one guy who the BBC watched 'finish off' his injured Pitbull after a fight by connecting him to the mains and throwing water over him. It nearly drove me to tears only got a fine and TWO YEARS in prison. BIG DEAL!!!! I say life imprisionment. It's horrible what they do to their dogs and they have the NERVE to call it a 'sport'. Some of the men aren't even in it for the money it's just 'pure sport' for them.
But really, they portrayed Pitbulls as killing machines.
Depsite such, I think I do agree with the banning of Pitbulls in the UK, purely for the same reason as Shebawolf. If the ban was stronger it would stop these terrible fights and acts of cruelty. However, I think that if an owner can prove that their dog is not violent then it should, yes, be neutered/spayed but not muzzled in public.
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Pommy
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Post subject: Re: Oh - fantastic! Something to worsen their name. Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:57 am |
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| Famous one |
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Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:31 pm Posts: 1183 Location: Infront of my computer.
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Outlaw wrote: I wish I could've watched that, but it sounds an awful lot like that video I posted.
Pitbulls are also banned in Winnipeg, where I live, but guess what? People still have them, including me (I would never give my dog away. She's registered as a Rottweiler although she's half Pit Bull too). There aren't that many purebreds, infact I only know one (although I think she's a mix).
But honestly, the ban does no good. Dog-fighters, gangsters, wanna-be gangsters, etc. are still going to buy Pitbulls. Just because they might go to jail for it, that doesn't mean it'll stop them.
I've seen dog fighting before, and not just on youtube.com. I've been to real dog fights, but not because I approve of the so-called "sport", I don't, but my sisters friends boyfriend took me there, since I always tell him to buy me a Pitbull. It's not just "okay, fight now and you'll get a cookie and a belly rub later", it's "win the ***** fight or you'll get killed with an electrical cord attached to your mouth", there's NOTHING good about it. And, as you said, alot of people don't even do it for the money. It's just entertainment, it's all a joke to them, dog-fighting is a sport for people who can't fight for themselves, people who need a dog to make them "tough"..
I don't understand why they keep putting bans on the dogs, why don't they put bans on all dog-fighters? It's not that hard to find them, just look for somebody with 20 or more (or even less) scarred-up pitbulls.
Okay sure, Pitbulls attack people. They attack children. BUT, so does every other dog breed, am I right? Maybe not as much, but if you raise a pitbull from birth, love it, care for it, treat it nicely, then it wont attack you. The only person it would attack is somebody who's trying to harm you (and I know that for a fact, my dad has 4).
But, if you abuse your dog, starve it, yell at it, train it to be mean just so you can look "cool", then you can't blame it if it attacks somebody. There are ALOT of good pitbulls in this world, along with alot of good owners, but why punish the good dogs/people for something the bad people did? I don't understand the government sometimes.. Yes it's not their fault. Why ban them when it's the owners? There is MANY good pitbulls and pitbull owners so why punish them?
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ShebaDove {wolf}
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Post subject: Re: Oh - fantastic! Something to worsen their name. Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:58 am |
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Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:14 am Posts: 2242 Location: Back in cold wet England, wishing I was in dear old New Zealand.
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I totally agree with you Outlaw and Second Chance banning wont do any good, only sensible severe punishments for bad owners will. Bu that's typical humans-ban something just because some people abuse it/them then the good ones suffer, a very long list of these could be written.
Sheba
_________________ I am still ShebaDove {wolf} I had problems when I tried to change (it was too long). Now my it has changed back to my old one in some places on the forums but it is still ShebaDove {wolf} elsewhere! I will pm a mod about it.
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Cogitor
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Post subject: Re: Oh - fantastic! Something to worsen their name. Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:29 pm |
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Shebawolf1 wrote: I totally agree with you Outlaw and Second Chance banning wont do any good, only sensible severe punishments for bad owners will. Bu that's typical humans-ban something just because some people abuse it/them then the good ones suffer, a very long list of these could be written.
Sheba I do not agree. If the ultimate goal is to protect the (human) community, you can't blame politicians for banning pit bulls. Allow me to explain: a ban works preventively, whereas 'sensible severe punishments for bad owners' do not. If you choose the 'sensible severe punishments for bad owners'-track, you will end up punishing bad owners only after the damage has already been done; after an attack has taken place. You could argue that authorities should do preventive controls with owners, but that is not sensible: it would both require too much resources, which the already stressed law-enforcement machine does not have to spare, and could come in conflict with existing privacy-laws. A ban on the other hand is preventive by it's very nature and is thus a far better way of protecting the public; you can act before an attack has taken place, without the need for a long and costly investigation (involving behavioral specialists etc.), as would be the case with the 'sensible severe punishments for bad owners' option. A mere sighting of a pit bull would be enough to go on. Then again, if you value the freedom to choose your own pet over the prevention of a possible risk for public security, the bad owner-punishment is the way to go. Putting it this way, I can't help but notice how similar this debate is to the one of gun-ownership.
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Letranger
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Post subject: Re: Oh - fantastic! Something to worsen their name. Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 2:30 pm |
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Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 6:40 pm Posts: 973 Location: Earth
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I see the firearms debate parallels too, but that might just be why BSL is (in my opinion) a terrible thing.
It's wrong to keep Pit Bulls out of the care of competent owners, where they belong. The "bad" owners would be less likely to respect a ban anyway; if they want one, they'll find a way to get one, and continue to treat it poorly which naturally results in the vicious dogs who, through no fault of their own, give a bad name to all the wonderful and sweet pet Pit Bulls out there. So I have to agree with everyone else, going after the animals and not the people is a huge error.
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ShebaDove {wolf}
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Post subject: Re: Oh - fantastic! Something to worsen their name. Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 2:48 pm |
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Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:14 am Posts: 2242 Location: Back in cold wet England, wishing I was in dear old New Zealand.
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Letranger wrote: I see the firearms debate parallels too, but that might just be why BSL is (in my opinion) a terrible thing.
It's wrong to keep Pit Bulls out of the care of competent owners, where they belong. The "bad" owners would be less likely to respect a ban anyway; if they want one, they'll find a way to get one, and continue to treat it poorly which naturally results in the vicious dogs who, through no fault of their own, give a bad name to all the wonderful and sweet pet Pit Bulls out there. So I have to agree with everyone else, going after the animals and not the people is a huge error. Once again Letranger, we think alike. I will try to pm you soon. Sheba
_________________ I am still ShebaDove {wolf} I had problems when I tried to change (it was too long). Now my it has changed back to my old one in some places on the forums but it is still ShebaDove {wolf} elsewhere! I will pm a mod about it.
Art / Images <--Linkz!
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Maugrim
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Post subject: Re: Oh - fantastic! Something to worsen their name. Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 6:15 am |
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| Famous one |
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Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2005 3:05 am Posts: 1837 Location: England
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I think that I've already said this but I think that the ban is probably the safest option.
That way, if Pitbulls aren't born in the first place then no one can get hold of them and train them as fighting dogs.. they'd never have to endure such suffering. If you think about, these idiots involved in dog-fighting more or less 'invented' the breed.. they're obviously not willing to give up their 'sport' easily.
I know that there are nice Pitbulls out there but after watching this programme it's clear that a lot of dog-fighting still goes on. These dogs might be gentle towards people (though perhaps not children) but they're not nice to other dogs.
It's the sick people in the world that ruin things for everyone.
That's just how things are.. these days. =|
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Pommy
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Post subject: Re: Oh - fantastic! Something to worsen their name. Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 7:41 am |
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Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:31 pm Posts: 1183 Location: Infront of my computer.
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Maugrim wrote: I think that I've already said this but I think that the ban is probably the safest option.
That way, if Pitbulls aren't born in the first place then no one can get hold of them and train them as fighting dogs.. they'd never have to endure such suffering. If you think about, these idiots involved in dog-fighting more or less 'invented' the breed.. they're obviously not willing to give up their 'sport' easily.
I know that there are nice Pitbulls out there but after watching this programme it's clear that a lot of dog-fighting still goes on. These dogs might be gentle towards people (though perhaps not children) but they're not nice to other dogs.
It's the sick people in the world that ruin things for everyone.
That's just how things are.. these days. =| Oh so this dumb program got you too? Unlike you I'm going to fight for them and keep them alive! Why ban them forever? Do you know how they ban them? THEY KILL THEM!!!
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