Animation Source Forums

I hate to drop the metaphorical nuke on you, Steet. But you've just proven the latter.



As has been said before, non-descriptive and non-deviant material is perfectly fine. I really don't know why some people insist on having deviant sex in stuff that they write, I'm going to guess it's hormones or something to that effect. Like has been said also, it doesn't matter if you write it, just don't post it here. And don't come running here saying it's censorship if other look down upon it.

I guess that, since the solution will not just pop up out of nowhere, let's take a look of what is done elsewhere :
How are the rules on The Lion king Archive, for example? (I don't know, I don't often go there) Or any other fan site like this?

I don't know about Lion King Archive, but I know that a number of other Balto fansites (Balto's Treasure, for instance) outlaw it, and they have never had a problem with some of the stuff this leads to (sexual RPs, for instance).

Have you consulted your other colleagues of the Timduru network?

Steet, you may have already mentioned this but is there a chance you create a seperate section on the site for fanfics that contain deviantart, so nobody's egos get hurt? I mean, there are some people on the site who like this kind of stuff, such as myself, and you too as you have said. To tell the writers who write this stuff to pack up and go because we have some 'disappointed' members would a little harsh... Not that I'm implying that or anything. I think it would serve best interests to have a seperate section.

Okay, I'm gonna be quiet now.

We aren't telling them to pack up and go. We're telling them not to post it here.



Music to my ears.

Or perhaps a separate site for them. I could live with that, as long as it wasn't linked to from here (as, for example, Lion King Source is linked to Balto Source and vice-versa). I wouldn't be happy about it, mind, but at least it would get the stuff off of here without too much confrontation.
The main thing I'm concerned with is that kids not be exposed to that sort of thing or lead to it. I mean, I'm all for freedom of the press,but the main reason I ever joined this site was, in a nutshell, because I care about people. I know it may look sometimes like I only care about getting my way, a misconception cultivated by some who deliberately skew the facts about me, but deep down I care about people. Especially kids. I've seen what happens to kids who are exposed to things like this too early, and it's not good.

Your point is well-taken, Jersey. There's no point to it when all's said and done. It's not censorship to prevent certain fanfics from being posted on here, especially when there are other sites which welcome, or even encourage such things.
I have nothing against, for example, certain of Rotramel's fics. I'd even buy his claim that the deviant ones were intended to show certain behaviors as wrong if it weren't for the fact that he contradicted that with other claims long ago. But the sum point of it is that his fanfics have, and i can prove this, had an unacceptable influence on readers, and particularly one who is a minor at that.
Does this mean I want his entire body of work given the boot and his name wiped from the site? Of course not! But I do think it only right that content on here be regulated for the benefit of those who are more easily influenced.

It's interesting, because they will call it censorship because it fits in their agenda to do so. If they must call it censorship, then so be it. But what we are imposing on them is hardly censorship. Censorship would be banishment from the entire internet. Interesting, also. We aren't even telling them they shouldn't write the material - we are telling them to take it elsewhere. And also, doesn't censorship usually go hand-in-hand with repression of truth? What truth are we repressing?

They must attack us with foolish accusations while we are merely telling them to take their material elsewhere. Seems childish on their part when you look at it from that point, doesn't it?

Okay, back to this old monster again eh? Okay, I'm going to state a few facts first.

1.) I am 22 years old

2.) I am mature enough to survive four years of the USMC

3.) I don't believe that ANY type of story should be banned because of subject.

Now, that said... this is what we're facing... we're facing a bunch of people that say... incest, bad, can't write it, gay, bad, can't write it... now look... I'll say right now that I don't really agree with the whole gay thing, goes against my religion actually, however, this site, Baltosource is not about what I personally hold as right and good, it is what the whole can accept. The reason the "don't like it, don't read it" policy isn't liked by those who will oppose me on this one is because it works all too well. This is what we should do, instead of dropping the ball on an entire subject, lets define "Sexual deviance... I see nothing wrong with Juuchan 17's incestual stories, nor do I see anything wrong with AFL (A Forbidden Love) which was inspired because of hers. Is it a... risque subject, one that might open your eyes to something ugly in the world for a change... yes, it is, however, it is NOT obscene and it is not harmful just because it's about incest. Now, if we want to talk about Balto porn, yes, that's wrong and shouldn't be placed on this site. If we have writers submitting work that GRAPHICALY portrays details of the two's coupling... whether it's incest, gay, straight, zoophilic, whatever, then it shouldn't be allowed. Now, I'll grant you that AFL walks the line pretty close on that one. If you'll read my other work you'll see that it's the only one that does, but that's neither here nor there. It was accepted, and you know, I only got one bad review in almost three years now. ...one, about a year and a half after it was posted... I was careful to include it in the warning at the beginning of the story, and that can be a REQUIREMENT as well. ...because in all honesty if I take the time to rate a story AND tell you SPECIFICALLY that it contains blood and violence or sexual themes and you IM me saying it offended you... I'm really not going to care, not in the slightest, teeniest, weenciest bit. I did MY part to warn you, if you don't want to heed that warning how is it my fault? ...it's not, here's an example for you... you know the street signs for a curve ahead right? Well, let's say that you pass a curve ahead sign and it has the number 35 below it. That is a warning to you that it may be unsafe to travel over 35 mph around that curve... but you don't care, you're in a hurry, so you take it at 60 mph. Now, you fly off the curve, destroy your car and spend weeks in the hospital... would you even THINK of suing the city because they made too sharp a curve in the road? ....NO, they already warned you not to go over 35, you decided to do it anyway... not their fault. ...the warnings are there for a reason... either read them and utilize them to censor what you take in or shut up about it, because frankly I'm tired of hearing that excuse. If we want to make it mandatory for writers to list a "warning paragraph" in their stories then fine, let's do it. Movies even do that now. You see PG-13 in the little box and then something like "contains - comic mischief, sexual themes, partial nudity and thematic elements" or something. That's fine, I'm all for that, in fact I do it now, and I always have... with that said if it's not graphic, and not descriptive I believe it to be a serious breach of the freedom of our writers here on Baltosource to not allow a story to be posted soley on subject. Look at the content, don't ban a genre... for anyone that said within this topic that you couldn't make a decent story out of a "sexually deviant" plot... I challenge you to read my story A Forbidden Love. It can be found here.

http://baltosource.timduru.org/fic/Balt ... =0&nsite=1

Now, I don't like to toot my own horn much, but I got some great responses from that story when it was posted, many hold it as one of my best... doesn't sound to me like I failed... I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but to fail means that no one likes it right?

Here are some of the responses to that thread. I've elected to protect those who voiced these opinions by excluding their names, but you can view the topic here

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3762

if you're curious, or if you wish to validate my claims.

- "Wow, that was...incredible! Such a tale of love, betrayal, and trust will never be found again. Bravo! "

- "Fantastic! That's your best fic so far, and I've loved them all!"

- "Again you've written another awsome fic. What can i say about this fic? Awsome! Brilliant!
and. . . AWSOME! Im not usually a fan of 'inner family relation' fics but i decided to give it a chance."

- "Exellent Story! Just awesome."

- "Tiz good. What have i add?"

...and this from my gallery.

- "I saw no harm in this story at all. I loved it. If it had been done differently, it wouldn't have made sense. Those who wanted this story off only saw the description and not what it really was about. This was well written, well thought and one of the best forbidden love stories I've ever read. As much as like 'Romeo and Juliet' types, they get old after awhile. This... this my friend was deep and original. Keep up the good work! *howls*"

In fact there was even a petition made when my own "Sexually Deviant" Fic AFL was removed from the site and you can find that here.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=16675

You'll see the vote there, 23 to 4 ....23 people said that it should be allowed, 4 said it should not, and 2 said that it should be modified.

Now, I know this post wasn't soley about AFL, but it was about "sexually deviant" fics and AFL has been wrongly classified as such before. I believe when the members of this site rose to defend my story, they also shined a light on this subject. Let stories be censored ONLY by content and NEVER by subject, this is the only fair and just way to do things.

Oh, and Ghost Unit... this...

"It's interesting, because they will call it censorship because it fits in their agenda to do so. If they must call it censorship, then so be it. But what we are imposing on them is hardly censorship. Censorship would be banishment from the entire internet. Interesting, also. We aren't even telling them they shouldn't write the material - we are telling them to take it elsewhere. And also, doesn't censorship usually go hand-in-hand with repression of truth? What truth are we repressing? "

...makes absolutely NO SENSE AT ALL. ...if I said I wanted all of a certain race out of America, but they could move to other places of the world, I'm not saying that they can't live, just not in my country. So you're saying I wouldn't be wrong or oppressive? ...just because there's somewhere else for them to go? ...are you freaking serious?!

Look fact of the matter is this.... I LOVE THIS SITE! ....this is the ONLY place on the whole internet that my stories are posted, and I intend to keep it that way. I love this site, and the community we have here... I wouldn't dream of moving unless I was forced away... and if it comes to that then I leave entirely... you either love me for who I am or hate me... don't come to me trying to accept bits and pieces.

Oh, and about the comment that what we write can never be considered "official" ....number one, who cares, number two, you're wrong. I myself have a publishing contract in the works right now, as we speak... I have only to find an agent and RTW's stories will become the official expansion, and others could do the same... stop limiting yourself, stop worrying about what you can't do and focus on what you CAN do... you can do ANYTHING if you have the will and the drive. Get out there and do something great, do something you love instead of sitting here listing reasons why it's impossible... find a way!




...I shall be watching... take care, and Steet... I hope you give this the utmost thought before making a decision... I love this site with all my soul... it's the reason I'm still alive today... if you want to know why specifically IM me and I'll be glad to share it with you, but... this is my home on the net... I would never, ever stear this sight wrong... NEVER... and I say Censor on Content, Not Subject...

Sincerely,

LCpl Anthony E. Rotramel, USMC, Sep.
(RTW)

For me, it depends. I don't think I've ever know the true definition of deviant sexual content. I believe that fan fics with strong sexual content should probably be banned, but not fan fics with mature sexual content.

Very well said Rotramel! Very well said. I completely agreed with everything that you stated. Expecially this part :



Only someone with little brain power would probably read something in which they know has material they don't like. That, or they just want reason for a flame war.

But I'm not going to really make a long post. I've said what I've wanted to. Those who doen't like it just need to accept the fact that there are ways around it so it could be posted on the site. My guess is that most of them are afraid to be wrong. lol.

All in all, I think sexual content in fan fics should be taken maturely. And I also think that things such as incest, zoophilia, homosexuality shouldn't have to be seen on a kid friendly site. Though I have no problem with homosexuality in real life.

Well, Rotramel, let's take a look at some of the other feedback your fics have gotten.
- "If Kodi and Dusty [url]were[/url] sibs and were in love would it matter?! it's like the Dingo-Saba thing." (granted, the names are off)
- "Incest isn't wrong..."
Shall I go on to list the myriad homosexual RPs which your fanfics left the door open for? And speaking of stuff you left the door open for, how about this?
- "Finally, a fic about zoophilia."
- "Yay KodixKirby!""
- "yea but Balto cheated with HIS SISTER!!! omg"
Just because you've got support doesn't mean squat. Adolph Hitler had loads of support too.


Exactly. This kind of stuff belongs elsewhere. Now with Rotramel's fics, I could see them on a different site. But not here.