Animation Source Forums

Nick, you are right of course. And you have an intelligent and impartial view of this (how refreshing...for this forum I mean, not for you). Of course, Cat has claimed that she has asked nicely. Still, every teenaged role-player (whether they do wolf characters, or Balto characters) I have talked to can only report negative, nasty and petty interaction with Cat and/or her cadre of friends who are sneaking around on MySpace, creating profiles JUST to go on the hunt (which, you have to admit, is pretty ridiculous).

Still, I respect you for your approach here. It is, in fact, the original approach I had...word for word. (The thread I created, which Greykitty rather unceremoniously locked, is proof of that...from my very first posting.)

My hat's off to you, buddy. Seriously. If you intent is honest, then maybe, because you're friends with these disgruntled artists and their coterie, you'll get farther than me. At least on THIS end. On the other? Maybe so too. But Cat and her friends have made the MySpace teenaged role-players very defensive and angry (I'm sure that makes them very happy...even if there are some who will not delete the artwork), so you might have to work at gaining their trust. I will help with that if I can.

I had some success with a few of the role-players. But some are stubborn...others are just sick of Cat and her friends, and intend to keep blowing her off. Given her attitude, I can hardly blame them for that, at least.

I'm not going to start or participate in a war here but I have a few questions and opinions I suppose I'll interject here.

As far as I knew her character wasn't an actual character in any of the Balto movies ever, so how can it still belong to universal or Amblin? You could simply call that character a sibling from another litter even if you wanted. I'm not trying to argue but make sense of that point.

In regards to the manner of some people here on BS, while I do believe asking nicely is a good idea most people I know won't respond to a polite E-mail. I can honestly say when I've E-mailed people in situations like this asking them to take down something of mine I haven't always received the nicest replies. People type very graphic E-mails when they're pissed, I know I've done that. I don't honestly expect anyone to be pleased to find their work on someone else site without permission, just finding that out probably enrages them so I can't blame them for sending a flaming E-mail.

As far as MySpace goes, I don't think Cat is pissed at Myspace in general or the RP'ers but the people lifting art without asking, and calling it their own. So what if she hates MySpace who cares? As long as you like it and it floats your boat that’s all that should matter right?

Well gee, you ever think that maybe I locked your topic to prevent more spam and more flames? You kept saying the same thing over and over and it wasn't going anywhere. All it was doing was stirring up more and more people on this forum making them angrier than they already were. It was turning into nothing but a long flame war. I locked it because I knew that after your last retort there were going to be several replies much harsher, than what had already been posted, aimed towards both you and the myspacers. I know because I talked to some of the people who were going to post a reply.
Remember! This is a Balto site/community for kids, not a warzone like the Middle East. Let's keep it civil.
Balto Source has no control over what it's members do on Myspace, and I find it infantile to keep bringing this subject up on the forums when it could be handled over e-mail or a PM.

Hey Lakoswolf. Thanks for being civil about this. I agree with what you said (except for that last paragraph, based on what has been said by Cat and her friends in this and other threads). But that's alright...it's a matter of opinion in your case and mine.

With regard to the first question, an image of a character, which appears in a movie or cartoon, is as much the property of the production company as is any official name the character might have. Even an actor or actress, in makeup and costume, cannot claim ownership to images of HIM OR HERSELF if that image was created as a result of direct involvement in a television series or movie. The studio and production company own it exclusively. And actors and actresses have often fought that concept...and lost. And so have animators and artists. The character named, by fans, "Kiona" still has very specific markings. So the markings clearly identify her. But that is a small matter. I go back to my old thread, where I pointed out that EVERY Balto fan, who produces a web site, or artwork (or fiction) is very, VERY lucky that Universal Pictures and Amblin Entertainment are far less sensitive and protective of their properties (apparently) than, say, LucasFilms and Paramount Pictures. Those two production companies have thrown legal documents (including threatening letters from their corporate lawyers) around at fans of their works (Star Wars and Star Trek as examples) in order to reign in any fan-based creations. And they're not the only ones.

If someone were to make enough of an issue to this, to Universal and Amblin, it could ruin the whole magilla for EVERYONE, including the aforementioned "tortured artists" who have been so egregiously harmed (lol) by others using their artwork on a simple profile page on MySpace or some other internet community profile. (Sarcastic, tongue-in-cheek addition...not directed at you personally, but rather out of bemusement and frustration with this nonsense) Yes, most assuredly, those artists have been deeply and critically set upon, and set back, by such actions! Great googily moogily! Stop the presses and hide the china! The apocalypse certainly cannot be very far off now! AAAAAAAAH!!!!!

(While I don't steal other's works...knowingly at least...I can say this: if you put it on the internet, you run the risk of such things happening. You deal with it, or you don't post your works. And in most cases, that is EXACTLY what a judge would say in any court of law in most countries.)

True I suppose you might be able to say that but then you'd end up somewhere in the fair use catagory........for example some bands and companies have tried to sue the makers of music vids that people have done and that’s been found to be legit under fair use.

Perhaps. It is interesting to ponder. Still, I understand that LucasFilms and Paramount Pictures were quite successful. And you know what? As corporate entities go, they have a lot more power than disgruntled bands ("artists?" LOL).

No foul, Lakoswolf. I'm glad we were able to discuss this civilly.

I highly suggest you stop sending 'emails' out to your Balto friends about Cat. I found that one you sent out it was down right rude and childish you say your 30 but in my eyes you act as if your a four year old.

You called us such childish rude things in fact I think I may just have to post your little email up here. That will surely get you ban from this site for saying the rude pathetic things you did. I suggest you stop your little 'sharade' Balto Seppla I am tired of this little flame war you causing. Oh my goodness its like we all five. Its Balto roleplay on a site thats not even ment for children. I hope it closes, I am really getting sick of all this bullocks.

Aaah, yeees. And yet NOTHING Cat and her friends (obviously this includes you) have said could possibly be construed as anything but intelligent, kind, sophisticated, and mature. Right?

*Pssst...*

WRONG...

What? This? Pff. I'm not afraid of people here seeing this! Beyond what I mentioned about "Count Balto" (who, evidence suggests, is dark wolf playing the trolling game), nothing I said below is news to anyone here. And it demonstrates the frustration from the OTHER point of view. People don't even need to bother clicking the hyperlink dark wolf just included above. They can see it HERE...unedited for content (I simply edited my opening statement here). So you've gained nothing. And I didn't ask anyone to flame her...I asked them to stand firm AGAINST her. I make NO apologies for that.

" 'Count Balto' and a sneaky, underhanded, dirty little game
Current mood: aggravated

Folks,

Any of you who has Count Balto as a friend on your list, you should read this. I know that's not many of you, because he only has eight friends. Still, this is worth reading.

There is a website known as Balto Source, which is a great clearing house for Balto fans. There is a section of that site devoted to fan art, and several fans have their artwork posted there. There was a time that anyone could go on and lift that art, with or without the artists' permission, and use it as they wished. Technically, that is wrong. It is always proper to ask for the artists' permission first. However, several MySpacers have done so already, which has infuriated some of the artists there, to the point where they convinced the site owner, Steet, to kill the right click/save as feature. Now, you can't access the art (unless you ask permission of the artists, some of whom now have an openly-hostile attitude towards MySpacers).

Now, I tried (being also a member of the Balto Source community, as there is also an active forum there) to reason with the artists, and be a resource for reaching a common understanding between MySpacers and the artists, and make peace. But I guess I started too late. The artists now are aggressively hostile to ALL MySpacers. To the point where they have people trolling about on MySpace, with newly-created, and thinly-disguised profiles (like, it turns out, "Count Balto") looking for ANYONE who has lifted the artwork from Balto Source. Their sole intent is to identify MySpacers who have done so, and then intimidate or openly bully and threaten them into eliminating the art from their pages (do not even think about asking if you could keep it up if you then ask for permission...it's too late in their eyes), or to report them to MySpace. Assuming, I suppose, that they'll get the MySpacers in trouble for misuse of "copyrighted material". It's a fine line. But not entirely clear cut either.

Now, since I have only been greeted with hostility by the members of the Balto Source community who are also artists (or their friends...especially the low-lifes who are now sneaking around on MySpace looking for "stolen artwork" as they call it), I have decided to stand AGAINST them.

Be watchful for individuals like Count Balto...who have few friends, and suspicious profiles. Most of them are friends of the string-puller, "CatWhoHas14Tails" (that is her Balto Source profile name)...a real bad egg. She's nasty, and she's waging a campaign to force all of you to get rid of the art, no matter whether it's hers or not. Stand FIRM! She has no right to compel you to do ANYTHING. Neither do any of her oddball friends!

(And I REALLY hope she sees this blog...I want her to see the results of being nasty with me and callously snubbing my efforts at trying to help).

Balto Source is mostly a very good site, and "Steet", the owner, is a nice guy. But there are some very unkind and uncouth people there, who have a holier-than-thou attitude, and a hatred of MySpace and MySpacers. Be advised. They're here...among us."

How on earth do you expect them to reply to people saying that their art is someone elses? It's stealing and it surely made them feel very upset that they worked so hard to make their pictures look good only for someone to claim it as their own, it's the theives that are acting childish and stupid by stealing art in the first place, my 12 year old brother knows better than that, they are the ones who are being rude.