Animation Source Forums

In theory, you're right. I cannot deny that. However, another reason why these things are often so misunderstood and blown out of proportion IS because most members "can't see it and get involved". Maybe they don't WANT to be involved. I can respect that. It can be exasperating. But they need to see it, so they can have a FAIR picture of what really goes on in cases such as this. And the way things are run here (and I don't necessarily mean by steet), there are many occasions where the staff (or a certain portion thereof) doesn't WANT you to see what's going on. Especially if it paints one or more of them in a less (or far less) than complimentary light. Which this particular incident most definitely would, I am sorry to say.

Sure, certain routine things, and routine daily business and management exchanges between staff members don't need to be scrutinized by general members. But some of the darker stuff and the non-management nonsense which is sometimes perpetrated behind the scenes, because the staff members ARE HUMAN TOO? That's an entirely different matter.

I obviously can't comment on what mods may or may not have done or may or may not have covered up; and since I only know what I've seen in this thread it would be inappropriate for me to give an opinion on what has happened. Regardless of my position on the site or what it could ever be someday I'd never know everything about anything and I'm comfortable with that. Some things like this issue would be an example of things that most members shouldn't always know because of what can happen when everyone gets involved(it didn't go so well this time). Everyone would have noticed Togo's departure and your previous bans along with any other major events that have happened; and while there would be members that would try to pry into the details, most members would just try to keep going on as usual here unless they or their friends on here learned just enough to be dangerous and drag people that would never have cared into the fray.

What makes you think that that isn't exactly what has happened in this case?

Of course it didn't go so well this time, but knowing or not knowing didn't change much. The manipulation still went on.

The whole "peace" approch would be all fine an dandy, and I wish it were practical, however, making a peace offering to an opponent with no such inclination is redicuous, and it is obvious the opponent has no such inclination.

Jersey did not make anyone pick sides, Togo and Steet made people pick sides. I would have been completely impartial if I hadn't seen my principles brutally attacked in JC's banning, because of the actions of Togo and Steet, I found myself in alligance to JC, but more or less by coincidence. I barely knew JC prior to this "event", nor did I know any of the administration. I had no motivation to come to JC's aid, or to attack him. What I saw was unfair, and I came to the defense of the victim, entirely of my own accord. I could easily have stayed out of it, but I refuse to premit such corruption.

I have now lerned that my previous statement is not enough. It really is only a small part of the problem. BTWD; Well said.

The things you people think of....I have failed to see, "Oh meh gee! Help meh! I beg of you! Your my friend youz iz on meh side or I hates joo 4 life! I willz spread my hatenz disease on joo! You will pay! "


JC never made me or anyone one pick sides. I was not once forced to do anything, that was my choice. People chose what they wanted to do, and if they didn't want to get involved it ended there. If they were neutral, it ended there. If they wanted to get involved they got a caution warning of the risk they're putting themselves in.

Granted, that's a very magnanimous and decent approach. Well done. And I would like to believe it's going to stay that way with you. And truth be told (and no matter what they happen to think of me personally, thanks to the rather ridiculous picture Togo and his friends on staff have perpetrated of me in the staff circles...usually outside of the view of the general membership), MOST mods and admins are generally fair, consistent and follow the rules and expectations regarding their duties and "powers".

That being said, there have been (and occasionally still are) cases where, once steet's back is turned or his attention is focused on other things, occasional excesses and abuses of power, favorites played, and inappropriate or unjust warnings and bans issued. The staffers (and I speak as one who is now a staffer, barring any attempts by those who are nursing a grudge to get me removed, and who has been one in the past) are, after all, only human, and subject to the same flaws and pecadillos as any other member. Including bad judgement calls, procrastination, emotional turbulence, and the playing of favorites. That is not debatable. Does it happen often? Hardly. But it does happen. And when it does, it is only (and only occasionally) corrected when either reported, sufficiently complained about, or discovered. And then the grudges and prejudices start in. And that, my dear NYBF, is a serious flaw in the system. And not one we simply have to accept as "...the realities of being part of an internet community with staffers who also have lives outside of Animation Source, and are only human..." (as the lament usually goes). We all should be able to expect a higher standard of professionalism and common courtesy from our fellow members who are (by their own request or acceptance) on the staff of this site...not only the forum but the various "sources" also.

I think that's a pretty reasonable and logical stream of thought, don't you? And lookie...I pointed fingers at no one, nor did I troll or flame anyone. Wowsers...

Not nessesarily everyone in administration is corrupt, but for events such as this to occur, something has to be broken in the system. JC isnt any more of a troll then myself. We are both argumentive individules, but do so with reason. To see someone banned for a logical argument quite literally frightens me. It threatens me, and it threatens general freedom. Now, the administration is by no means completely destroyed, There are obvious counter examples, such as yourself, and Mightybalto. However, this event, and the events leading up to it show damage in the system. However, its nowhere near the complete corruption that exists on sites like Facepunch. Facepunch forum administration makes BS administration look like a perfect system, which is perhaps, as a member of both, is what blinded me to the damage to BS's system. Now, its good to hear that there have been no such edits, and I belive the rest of the administration is wisely treading lightly, after realizing they had an oposition. However, I have seen plenty of blind aligance to Togo, enough to concern me about what may happen to my posts if I disagree with him. In my opinion, if Togo was immature to go run off and sulk at this, then he isnt exactly admin material. However, I think the system is repairing itself. Balto Source still has a plenty of a chance to pull through, as it looks currently, with our key catalyst out of the equation.

And thanks, NYBF

The biggest problem with all of this was bringing personal qualms into modding.

I don't agree with what Togo did (perma-banning JC for that furry topic) but I do feel Togo leaving was a loss.
In the future though, this is going to serve as a warning to all mods what a mess it causes when you bring your personal conflicts into modding the site.
I.E. A huge mess.

There was also the daft move by Steet to post it all publically on the news, the better way would've been to send a Mass PM to JC and all the mods saying what he wanted to say.

And lastly people getting themselves involved and having a big argument over something very little. (This part includes myself and for that I am deeply sorry.)

I don't see how not getting involved would have helped anything. This has been going on for two years without our involvment, and obviously that did no good. I woill not allow injustice for the sake of not having an argument. We are on a forum, there are going to be arguments. No one Is guilty for defending his or her principles and opinions.

I would certainly be remiss if I did not show you my gratitude for stepping in for both me and the larger cause of trying to steer this site back in the right direction (back to where it once was...some time ago), but I must tell you that I would really rather see this process also involve reconciliation and proactive good will rather than a hammer stroke (unlike the repeated hammer strokes against me). Those who have really tried to perpetuate the "OUR sandbox...we're just letting you sit on the edge and run your fingers through the sand" mindset are now falling in on themselves and apparently seeking greener pastures elsewhere. Some of them ARE still here, and ARE still on staff. And for all I know may still be engaged in surreptitios plotting and hate-mongering (and mud-slinging). But now that at least some of this has been exposed to the light of day, it's not going to be so easy for them anymore. As long as we keep vigilant against that kind of behavior! And that won't be easy...it's easier to simply say "well, looks like everything's back to normal! I knew it would settle down! Now where were we? Oh yes...sparkle dogs!" And if the guard is let down, that's when the problems can begin again.


If you read earlier comments, RJ, then you know UK got involved (in a small way, and certainly not on the level of Togo and Lucario)...she's admitting to that here, and admitted to it a bit earlier. And now she's apologizing. As I have apologized to her for being short with her (i.e., angry and snappy) in a Skype discussion about the whole awful mess.

This, in case anyone is wondering where this whole thing stands, is a step in the right direction. As I see it, there have been a FEW steps, even if we still have a long way to go, and even if Togo is absolutely determined to still take his toys (and his closest friends in this, who are reacting with the same attitude as him) elsewhere:

1. NYBF offered the first olive branch, and one of the first suggestions that this really needs to cool down; in response, I apologized to anyone not directly involved, and agreed to sort things out with NYBF (though he was very minimally involved in this, and certainly had no stake in "sides" as far as I know);

2. People have been discussing the ramifications of the kinds of behavior and modding practices which devolve into situations like this one. Now, granted, THIS particular situation has, at its heart, a deep-seated personal grudge (on the part of Togo and, actually, Lucario as well) which goes beyond questionable modding. No one can resolve that but those holding the grudges, and no amount of talking about it in a topic will sort that out. To expect otherwise (and I mean this generally) is ridiculous.

3. UK posted a very recent post where she wanted to clarify some points, including alluding to the argument she and I had off-site about this mess, which led to what she described before that as her viewing me as a "former friend", which I can only presume was said in anger. Maybe not. Maybe that's how she really feels. But in response, I explained myself a bit further, and then I offered an apology to her for being short with her, clarifying that I was not angry with her so much as I was just angry and frustrated with the whole stinking mess.

4. UK acknowledged her small involvement in this, mostly borne of frustration and perhaps straining over friendships or what to say and what not to say (though I am not going to speak for her...this is only my best guess), and apologized. I, in response, am posting this.

If we all are keeping tabs, it looks to me like the situation is finally starting to move in the right direction. That should be construed as a good thing. However, and I want to make this crystal clear, I see absolutely no indication whatsoever that either Togo, Lucario or their closest mod friends (and whomever they've culled from the general membership) have any desire whatsoever to see resolution, reconciliation or the like. And I mean REAL, SUBSTANTIVE resolution and reconciliation...not such simply for the sake of appearances while the underlying grudge, and resulting disreputable behavior, remain (the ultimate goal being to intimidate me off of Animation Source and KEEP me off...permanently -- under the laughable pretense that I am a palpable danger to this site ) -- we've already gone that route once before, and it is quite obvious where it has gotten Animation Source. Sorry folks, but that is no fault of mine. I returned and you all were witness to how I have conducted myself on the forum and on the sites. I have been civil, friendly, informative, and have debated and discussed without flames or trolling (in point of fact, I have NEVER trolled; though I will admit that, on RARE occasions, I have stooped to flaming in response to flaming or hostility...RARELY. And far more rarely than I have been given "credit" for). For me to have been labeled a "troll" and then treated so disgracefully, over an argument which I didn't start (and in which I did NOT flame), in a now-locked topic, is one of the most flagrant examples of bad moderating and management in this site's history...and that falls on Togo.

So now we know where we stand.