Animation Source Forums

Maily because of unknowing. Some people sees the anime as something weird

"Unknowing"? "Obscurity" would be far more accurate. There may be a strong anime fan following that overlaps into this one (and then the very extreme "weeaboo" people, who leave a very bad taste in the mouths of lay people who might otherwise be curious about anime), but that doesn't mean that everyone in North America or Europe knows what the heck someone is talking about when they rattle off Japanese series names like "Arashi No Yoru Ni", "Ginga Densetsu Weed", "Naruto...", "Gundam...", "Inuyasha", "Yu Yu Hakusho", "Yu-Gi-Oh!", "Ginga Nagareboshi Gin", etc. Nor even does throwing an English name at an English-speaking audience generally very helpful (i.e. "Cowboy Bebop", "Wolf's Rain", "Dragonball Z", "Sailor Moon", Kimba The White Lion", "Fullmetal Alchemist", "Ghost In The Shell", "Beyblade", etc.). And no...I'm no weeaboo or even anime fan. I pulled all of those off of a list, based on seeing at least some of them repeatedly mentioned on this site.


And it is only because of ultra-strong product marketing (such as toys, clothing, backpacks, coloring books, trading cards, games, etc.) that series like Pokemon have entered more into the familiarity of the mainstream (the lay community) in the west than the others have. Familiarity doesn't necessarily translate as love or acceptance, beyond its fans of course...and tons of kids who simply love playing with the toys (and, perhaps a bit more unsettling to adults and at least SOME teenagers, the fact that some teenagers and adults also like to play with Pokemon toys).


Not that I wasn't a fan of anime when I was younger. However, when I was a kid (and, later, a teen), the only anime series on television were English-dubbed classics such as "Speed Racer", "Star Blazers", "G-Force"/"Battle of the Planets" (this "G-Force" had nothing whatsoever to do with the recent and ridiculous CGI movie with the Guinea pigs) and "Astro Boy". I watched all but the last one. Especially Star Blazers, which had a far more in-depth continuing sci-fi story line (very loosely similar to Star Trek in some aspects), with a heroic theme, than almost any other did. But the key back then was that these series were not only dubbed into English (and given English names which were still not nearly as confusing and vague as "Cowboy Bebop" or "Beyblade"), but they were also reworked a bit for digestion by western audiences. In other words, no confusing, baffling or disturbing story lines, characters or plots. All of those things contributed greatly to their long-term success. Especially, of all of them, "Speed Racer".


No, I think your second sentence more accurately sums it up. And "weird" can as much reflect the more extreme of anime fans (weeaboos) to lay people as does, quite often, the strange and bizarre plots of anime movies or series. And I will reinforce that with an excerpt from another topic where someone asked me about some obscure anime I'd never, ever heard of.


To wit:

I think sometimes its the over-reactive fans that ruin it for others at time too though-
Trust me (If you can't tell already) I'm a die-hard Ginga Nagareboshi Gin/Ginga Densetsu Weed fan; as well as other series like Naruto, Fairy Tail, Bleach, Death Note, Wolf's Rain ETC- but I tend to not flaunt it all over the place (Maybe my love for ginga lol) but some people tend to go overboard and I think that's a major cause for people not liking it just due to the fans-

If that makes ANY sense-

Oh that makes perfect sense actually. Because that's the same problem with many such things. Things which many people actually DO like, but are afraid to ever admit to liking precisely because of the oddball and often disturbingly-excessive (and obsessive) behavior of hardcore fans. Shows/movies/genres like:

• Star Trek
  
  
• Star Wars
  
  
• Harry Potter
  
  
• anime
  
  
• superhero comics/movies/series
  
  
• My Little Pony
  
  
• Disney animated movies
  
  
• Universal animated movies
  
  
• fantasy role-playing games

Etc.


(Cue the hypersensitive over-reactivity of the aforementioned hardcore fans. )

Including me, indeed.

Speed Racer: I remember it, and i liked it.
Star Blazers: My memories about that one aren't so clear.
G Force: I know right? If i remember correctly, that one was about a group of heroes with names of birds, am i right?

Astro Boy: Of course i watched it.




Sometimes, weeaboos are problematic even for yhe moderate fans, but with ''weird'' i wanted to say that, at least in the mexican society, a strongely conservative and hermetic one, the anime is not seen as something good or constructive for young people.



Maybe that's the reason? could be, but many people here has an almost sickening fear and/or hate for anime.



Agree.





If that few old classics were the ones you mentioned above, i'll tell you that you're wrong on thinking that. Here in Mexico, there are people even in dusty and forsaken rural towns who know them.



Yes, i remember that one from your crossover topic! I never heard of that anime too, and i don't have any interest on watch it. And the internet is almost always the only way you can investigate and watch all kinds of anime.



Oh. It's a very complicate proccess, everything starts with some teenager sitting on the front of his computer and... i'll explain the rest someday




Haha, don't worry! At least i've understood you, and i hope that girl too.

There is absolutely no anime EVER which has topped Speed Racer in the zeitgeist of the west. Not even Pokemon, with all of its hardcore marketing.


Then perhaps these links might help (though they are in English, not Spanish. I am sure, though, there must be some Spanish websites devoted to this show):

http://www.starblazers.com/

http://www.ourstarblazers.com/

From this website: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Battleship_Yamato_%28spaceship%29 comes the following claim: "In Spanish-speaking countries its name was changed to Intrépido ('Intrepid')."

From this website: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=338 comes the following list of "alternative titles" (different language translations):

"Alternative title:
Estrellas Luminosas (Spanish)
La Corazzata Spaziale Yamato (Italian)
Nave Espacial (Spanish)
Patrulha Estelar (Portuguese)
Space Battleship Yamato
Space Battleship Yamato 1 - The Quest for Iscandar
Space Cruiser Yamato
Star Blazers: Crucero Espacial Yamato (Spanish)
Star Blazers: The Quest for Iscandar
Uch? Senkan Yamato (Japanese)
Viaje a la Ultima Galaxia (Spanish)
Yamato, le Cuirassé de l'Espace (French)"


It maintains such a large fan base over the world, and most especially in Japan that, a few years ago, a live-action (and heavy CGI) movie was produced in Japan:




Correct.

http://www.gatchonline.com/versions/versions_botp.htm





Generally-speaking, about westerners? Not really.I am sure they know of the more commonly-marketed ones which all westerners see on television or the internet. And there is a general understanding of what "anime" is. But as to the more obscure ones with the exclusively-Japanese titles, or more unusual names? Unlikely. I mean, you said it yourself about Arashi No Yoru Ni:

"I never heard of that anime too, and i don't have any interest on watch it."

Maybe in Mexico it's different. I don't know. However, I am quite certain the average Mexican or Central American has no better understanding or awareness of it (or other obscure and oddball anime like it) than you or most other westerners. And that goes as much for any anime as for this particular example.

I just wanted to say...

Saying "I hate anime" or "I love anime" is the SAME THING as saying "I hate cartoons" or "I love cartoons." Or "I hate/love books". Or "movies". Or "comics". Etc.

Anime itself isn't a genre...in fact, it consists of many DIFFERENT genres. Different ones appeal to different people. So if anime isn't a genre, what is it? By its western definition...it's just cartoons that were made in Japan. In Japan, "anime" is just the word for cartoon (in fact, it's the shortened version of "animation")--meaning even something like Spongebob would be considered "anime" there.

When asked if I like anime, I generally say "yes"...but there are some anime series that I don't like. Same with American cartoons--when asked, I say I like them, but there are some in particular that I don't like. Same with books. And movies. And comics. Same concept.

In my opinion, asking if you like anime (or cartoons, or books, etc.) as a whole is just too broad a question. No matter what form it's in, there's still some sort of story to be told. I don't like or dislike series because of the form they come in...I like or dislike them because of the story they have to tell. And different stories appeal to different people.


If there are aspects of animes that someone just doesn't like, then that's fine. We are all entitled to having our own opinions. But if you put off a series that you haven't seen just because it's anime...well, that's like putting off a book just because it's a book. Watch/read what you want, of course, but you could be missing out on some stories that you would've really liked had you given it a chance.

Am I saying that all anime is great and that if you don't watch [insert series here] you're totally missing out? Not at all. I'm just saying that the range of anime is very wide and there might be something in there that you like. There will also be some that you dislike. Just like any other form of storytelling.


Ok, rambling over. :)

Thanks for taking the words out of my mouth, Natti!

In general, I would say that I do like anime, but only a few. 'Wolf's Rain' was definitely my gate-way anime, but it lead me to some extremely emotional and heart-wrenching shows like 'Clannad' and 'Kanon' and also some cute and funny shows like 'Kaichou Wa Maid-Sama' and 'Ouran Host Club' and 'Fruits Basket.' Maybe no one else has even heard of these shows because I know they aren't that popular to those who really like anime and watch shows like 'Pokemon' and 'Naruto' and other such animes that have been mentioned hear and listed by JC.

For those who don't like the stereotypical animes with strange plot lines, ninjas flying everywhere, tons of blood and gore, and too many characters to keep track of, trust me, there are lots of other animes that include none of this stuff. To help me prove this point, I'll reference some of my favorite shows.

Clannad's basic story (and it's sequel/second season Clannad After Story) revolves around Tomoya Okazaki, a third year/senior in high school who doesn't really have much motivation in school and is seen as a goof-off who shows up late for school and known to be a 'delinquent'. At the beginning of the year, he meets Nagisa Furukawa, another senior who is repeating the year due to her missing most of the previous year because of sickness. (Yeah, it's a love story...) Although this story is mostly contemporary, it also deals just a tiny bit with the idea of alternate universes, but it is not the main theme of the story at all. It is a very emotional anime that had me crying at nearly every episode. It is all about learning people's stories and the hardships they deal with that they never tell anyone about. Truly a touching story. Yes, it has a typical style with blue and purple and orange hair, but I think the art is tastefully done and unsaturated enough to still be unnatural but not in-your-face. (Kanon is very similar and created by the same company/studio.)

Kaichou Wa Maid-Sama is just a plain old fun anime that is hilarious in every episode. Misaki Ayuzawa is the class president of a school that used to be a male-only school until the previous year. Still hurt from her father leaving their family when she was younger, she has a distrust of all men and is especially hard on them when it comes to discipline. She also works as a waitress at a Maid Cafe in another town, fearing that if the boys in her school find out her family is poor and she works as a maid, they'll loose all respect for her. However, her secret is found out by Takumi Usui, a rather popular guy who gains his charisma by just going with the flow. He holds the secret over her head as he tries to convince her that it shouldn't matter what her father did or that her family is poor; she should give everyone a chance based only on them. This story is completely contemporary with absolutely no magic or supernatural along with a more natural color-palate for their characters. It's highly entertaining and a good watch for anyone to try who is looking for a less showy anime. (Host Club is very similar.)

Fruits Basket is a good mix between contemporary and magic-type anime. It centers around a family that is cursed (or blessed) by the Chinese zodiac and can change into these animals. I know it sounds a little strange, but trust me, it's a good story. Besides, the zodiac animals are only part of the story. It's mostly about Tohru Honda learning more about the family and learning to be more than just the selfless friend. This also has more natural look to its characters, though a more stereotypical anime storyline. Still an adorable show, though.

So, I guess the point I am trying to make is just branching off of what Natti has already said. I am a firm believer that there is an anime out there for everyone, just like their is a book/movie/play/band/television show for everyone. I am in full agreement with both sides of this argument. Those who claim to 'hate' anime usually have a close-minded view of it, not investing enough time to explore more shows than just what is popular. Then again, yes, the stereotypical animes like Naruto and Bleach and such, which are popular for whatever reason, are definitely not something that the majority of people will enjoy. Honestly, I'm not a fan of them at all.

To summarize, people need to be more open-minded in general. When you think anime, try not to immediately think of people with blue hair throwing swords at each other with impossible ninja moves. Then again, if that's your thing, don't put down people who don't particular like it. Everyone has different tastes, and sometimes it's just about finding the right one.

On a side note, I'd just like to address something JC said about Americanizing anime with new names and reworked plots. This is just my opinion, but I personally can't stand it when American studios completely change something to better fit a culture. I much prefer reading english subtitles than hearing annoying english voices; I enjoy learning more about the Japanese culture through their slang and their traditions shown through the story; and I hate only getting part of a story with an abridged version of the real thing. This is all I personal thing, I understand, but I just wanted to put my opinion out there.

Actually, it kinda is:


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/anime?s=t


The confusion in this question is created by the use of the word "genre", by anime fans and other people in general, versus what is really meant...that anime is a "style". That is better explained here:


http://www.umich.edu/~anime/intro.html


In the above page, we can see how the author clarifies the term "genre", but still points out that there is a "style" to anime which is separate from other forms of animation art (as used in cartoons). Every kind of animation can have more than one "genre" (comedy, drama, slapstick, fantasy, science fiction, etc.). "Genre" is simply a slight misnomer, used colloquially to refer to what more appropriately should be referred to as "style" in these cases. It's just a chatty way of making the same point...inaccurate perhaps. But it's not terribly important in the grand scheme.


Still, it's worth pointing out that various forms of animation art, as used in animated movies, television series, etc. ("cartoons") have overriding and unique styles or style sets which define them. Japanese anime does (as described on the website above, and in websites like it); Disney animation does; Don Bluth's animated movies do (and he used to even work for Disney, before splitting off from them to start his own production company, and cranking out some of the greatest animated movies in recent history); the television series of the Filmation company (http://www.toonopedia.com/filmatn.htm) of the 1970s definitely do; and the list goes on and on (Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies, produced by the animators and animation artists of the legendary "Termite Terrace" of Warner Brothers [http://www.retrojunk.com/article/show/2445/the-boys-from-termite-terrace]; MGM; Hanna-Barbera [http://www.bcdb.com/cartoons/Hanna-Barbera_Studios/index.html], etc.).


The difference is that, once again, anime is so insular that every animation artist and animator in Japan seems to have fed off almost the same style. Almost to the point of making it seem utterly identical to every other one produced in Japan. Thus, if anything, "anime" is not just a style, but a national style...whereas the others mentioned in the previous paragraph are more accurately defined as styles particular to certain production companies (the ones listed are all American ones).


So yes...anime definitely has its own style. It may well have several different genres within its form ("style"), but it does stand on its own as separate from other animation styles.






Most people want to hear movies and cartoons in their native language rather than having to try and read (and keep up with) subtitles. It's only natural. The reason why English dubs of anime seem "annoying" is that the often wordy and chatty nature of scripting in anime doesn't translate well (at least not from Japanese to English). That, and there are simply massive grammatical and contextual differences between Japanese and many western languages (including English). So most anime dubbed into English makes it sound like the characters are hyped up on an overdose of caffeine (or some stimulant drug) while rattling off their dialogue in one continuous, unbroken run-on sentence. In one breath. I'd find it utterly hilarious if, after a character finished speaking his or her lines in an anime piece, they bent over all flushed while trying to gasp for air. ROFLMAO


Plus, most people don't want to have to get their tongues all twisted up trying to blurt out names like "Ginga Nagareboshi Gin", "Ginga Densetsu Weed" (which I jokingly refer to as "Ganja, Dem Smokin' Weed, Mahn" because I cannot stand the title, much less the way fans gush over what, to me, looks pretty stupid), "Rurouni Kenshin", "Kimi Ga Nozomu Eien", "Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu", "Haibane Renmei", "Azumanga Daioh", "Maho Tsukai ni Taisetsu na Koto", etc. People tend to get headaches trying to sort all that out...certainly they would if they have had no experience with the Japanese language.


I found this web page which explains it to a certain degree, though it is rather wordy and dry reading. The section at the bottom ("My View") takes in the author's personal perspective. I agree on what he/she said...to a point. I diverge from that where the author gets into whether or not anime is its own art form. Because it very much is. Still, the rest of it is worth a read...


http://www.usaanime.us/References/Sub-Dub.htm


Happy reading.

Whoops! It would seem that I've used the wrong definition, then. When I said "genre", I was referring to, as you mentioned, stuff like "action/drama/romance/comedy/fantasy/etc." My bad.



As for the sub/dub thing...it depends, for me. I guess I don't really have a big say in this because I haven't actually watched THAT much anime...two series all the way through, bits and pieces of a few other series, and a handful of Studio Ghibli movies. But based on what experience I do have...

I'll watch in dub, but only IF the English voice actors can pull it off, which of course, doesn't always happen. Studio Ghibli, for example, usually does a fantastic job with their dubs.

However, I can't stand the dub for Inuyasha (one of my favorite series ever), despite much of the fandom claiming it has a "good" dub. Sorry, fandom, but in my opinion, the dub made all the characters sound a lot more dim-witted and annoying (and in Kagome's case, whiny) than they actually are. Not to mention it screws up the names, leading much if the fandom to believing the incorrect pronunciations. And having that crap voice acting on top of all the changes, edits, removal of certain moments and arcs for the same of drama/ratings, addition of fillers that equally mess up the character development, re-ordering of events, etc. that Sunrise (the company that produced the anime) made when "adapting" the manga is where a LOT of the criticisms against this series come from. Basically, it goes like this:

1.) We have the original manga series by Rumiko Takahashi. Believable characters with deep personalities, good, gradual development and arcs that develop them as well as smoothly transition the plot.

2.) The original Japanese anime produced by Sunrise, which made all the changes mentioned above. By adding fillers and removing certain moments/arcs, the characters are portrayed a bit differently. Inuyasha seems like a dim-witted, indecisive jerk, Kikyo seems a lot more malicious, Kagome seems shallower and more useless, etc. All for the sake of ratings and drama. But hey, at least the voice actors do a fantastic job. Until...

3.) The English dub. All of Sunrise's screw-ups PLUS voice actors who just didn't pull it off as well (some more so than others.)


Whoops, got slightly off-topic with my vent there. Sorry 'bout that.

I guess I should say that we also had "Marine Boy" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Boy)...probably the least well-known (nowadays anyway) of the English-dubbed anime series to feature in the U.S. It initially ran in the late 60s, but continued in re-runs through the seventies. I remember watching it as a boy, and being really into it...as much as I was with Speed Racer and the live-action monster-hero show Ultraman. (The closest comparative show was Astro Boy but, again, I never even saw it on TV.) Meh - I was a kid.


The Marine Boy theme is pretty silly, and very typical of anime titles and theme music. But it wasn't so bad a series. Kind of a Japanese version of DC Comics' Aqualad, the side-kick of the legendary Aquaman (more or less...Marine Boy needed a special chewing gum to allow him to temporarily breathe underwater...Aqualad was an Atlantean and, as a result, COULD breath underwater unassisted).


Here's the opening credits for the Marine Boy series. There are plenty of English-dubbed episodes on YouTube of course: