Animation Source Forums

Hmmhmm, an interesting topic to debate about (once more). So, I've gotten a drink and pulled out a pillow to reply. Yeah, it may be old, but I want my 2 cents, so listen.

-Link deleted. Do not hyperlink to Encyclopedia Dramatica here.

View this as well for extra information about your "idol".

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This is ridiculous, their are some people who seriously need to grow up on this site. You are bashing a comic. If it is jealously, hatred, I don't even know what. Do you ever wonder why sometimes artist make snappy comments? Maybe they are tired of hate mail and god awful comments.

I (if you referred to me) am not bashing I comic. Let me be straight - my first negative encounter with your great idol was simply telling her that she should give more credit to ESDA; maybe letting her upload the pages to her site, you know. It was not jealousy nor hatred. The hate mail she gets comes from people who believe that she is a snot-nosed college dropout who gets credit for balto recolors and WAY too much attention than she deserves. And truthfully, those people are right.

What is so bad about Kayfedewa and ESDA06? What have they done to you? They have created a comic. I've seen so many people bash them, oh she isn't giving so and so credit enough! Do you not think that if the team helping her wanted more credit that it would not be given? This is a personal matter that should be left for KAY AND HER STAFF ONLY. Not for every person to rag on them about.

Well, let's see what's so bad. After telling Kay about how she should give ESDA more credit, I was immediately flamed with sarcasm, rude insults about my comic, and the fans - oh lord, the fans - flying at me from every direction, leaving spam on my page and calling me an indiot and to jump off a cliff. If ESDA didn't want that much credit, fine with me, a simple comment from your lovely Kay would have been good enough. Apparently, she wanted to step it up a notch and led to a flame war.

You do know that she is doing the comic for YOUR enjoyment, correct? Why can everyone just not appreciate the hard work and effort put into the comic? Yes, Kay does not do the backgrounds. Its not that big of a deal. Most comic's have someone who draws the backgrounds. Do you all not think the backgrounds on the comic are drawn well enough? I think ESDA06 puts in one heck of an effort. Her backgrounds should be APPRECIATED and APPLAUDED not bashed because Kay hasn't done this. IT IS A JOINT EFFORT! This comic could not be put together any other way!

She is not doing it for our enjoyment. I am highly doubting it. Here, see, she states she doesn't care about all her fans and attention, and yet, everywhere I turn, I can find her war-painted childish wolves scattered around every nook and cranny. She's joined a whole bunch of sites I've been to, posting her comic and acting sweet to charm more wolf artists into adoring her.

Besides, ESDA puts in a whole bunch of effort; no one can deny that. But, certainly a lot more than Kay does. Kay doesn't even bother to add the effects herself. I do not applaud Kay for her "art". They are souless Disney-ripoffs. I've seen artists a million times better who haven't even gotten HALF of the attention they deserve. Life is unfair, huh?

Now with this RayJ BS. First off, no I am not going to start a flame war against her. If you are friends with RayJ, I do not care. This is not about 'hating' on anyone, just some thoughts I have on this 'subject'. I've really seen and had enough with this. The hate and all that crap, so ridiculous! Don't get me started on the junk going on here. Creating account after account. The moderating staff can barely speak their mind on the subject. Because God forbid we do, we are being horrid mods. We have petitions started against us and then we get demoded. Lovely 'eh? Look you get banned if you plaster hate propaganda all over. All I ever see from that account is I hate this, I hate you, ---- this, ----- you, ----that, why doesn't anyone like my art? Then the bashing everyone who has something against her. I can see why some people do not rather 'like' her account. Its rude and downright offensive at times. Maybe if you were a bit nicer and treated people with respect, they would help you on your comic. Some growing up NEEDS to be done. Appreciate the things you have, rather then sit and spread nasty comments around and about ESDA and Kay and other people.

This sounds a lot more like a "hate RayJ" thing to me. I am not plastering your hate crap everywhere and I'm not calling everyone a horrible mod. Perhaps, you guys blowing me off and posting rants behind my back is what sets me off. Ever think about that? You only care about how you feel when I make an account, but you never think twice about how I feel after that account is banned. It has never occurred to you the effects that the interwebz can have on someone. Perhaps Kay's little fantasy comic's fans have gotten me to the point of spreading nasty rumors. Things happen online that you cannot control. So why bother? Why are you trying to preach about growing up and life when you have some growing up to do yourself?

At least I'm not the one sitting here on my *** and trying to teach everyone about life. A futile attempt, in fact. You can't teach crap over the internet. You, of all people Drew, should be "growing up" and growing out of this little "let's color Balto" phase.

Let us not forget the golden rule, treat others as you want to be treated.

Maybe if I were treated with a bit more respect, and a little less banning, then you would be treated well too?

Look, its a comic. Its ART, if you don't like it, then keep your comments to yourself. Everyone has free will. Why even bother bashing the comic? If you don't like it, simply ignore it. It is not hurting anyone and you know what, if you want to look at it in anyway. People are reading it, its so hard to get kids to read something that is truly enjoyable and not full fo sexual propaganda etc. etc.

My free will lets me state how I don't like the comic. Too much war-paint, too much "release her" or "fight for the honor of blah blah" official talk. Wolves wouldn't talk like that. Only in very official business would you speak like that. Then these huge, red wolves with this Fury, ropes around their necks, and being these "worthless guards" makes no sense either. People are only reading it for the art and that's dead obvious.

These are my thoughts, if you do not like them, please do not flame up this page. I am not here to harass anyone, flame anyone, personally I just had to state my opinion on this matter.

And these are mine. I'm not flaming or harassing either.

Remember those two artist, they are human beings, Kayfedewa and ESDA06 You know, they have feelings too.

Yes yes, I'm a human being too; therefore I have feelings as well. We're all humans and nothing more, so you cannot place these two on a pedestol. Human nature does involve fighting and arguing and the likes, besides just being nice. I am not "inhuman" or "evil", nor should I burn in hell for my actions and words. Their comic is still going to be popular, and I'm still going to be annoying, and there is still going to be hate and crap going on in this world that you can't do anything about. Their comic though, even while popular, has a setting change every couple of pages, ridiculous main characters with "cloned background characters", and is overall a poorly-built novel. You can't change it and you can't get rid of the drama over it. You'll never be able to do anything about it.

~RayJ

I dunno the poster of this very well, but quoted for truth.

EDIT: Because I'm a nice guy, I removed the enclosed link.

To be honest, I'm not going to take sides with anyone. I'm just going to appreciate the comic for what it is - an entertaining piece of art about wolves.
I can understand people's frustration at being flamed by hordes of BBA fans just because they criticised her work. It's not a perfect comic and we all have a right to give some sort of critique, just so long as it's done politely.

To be honest, I'm still very surprised that a simple comic can provoke so much anger and violence. I've seen enough - I personally think this should be locked.

I am really tempted to lock this right here, right now...

RayJ, I will be honest and say that I personally think that the people who write articles in Encyclopedia Dramatica are on some highly concentrated substance. I've only seen small snippits of articles from some Google search results, and they honestly seem that way, to me. Such is why I never have, and never will, visit that site. Other than that, I've already posted my two cents on this subject, and I do not want to repeat it. I'm sure I'm not alone in saying that it annoys me how strongly people believe things of utterly minimal importance in the grand scope of things.

If there is any flaming or outright bashing of anyone, I, or some other mod, will waste no time in locking this.

Just one quick slightly off-topic comment.

Encyclopedia Dramatica is not like wikipedia. It should not be seen by those under the age of 18, or with preconceived notions - like the (in)famous websites like Ebaumsworld, Newgrounds, SomethingAwful, and PortalofEvil. Unlike those sites, Encyclopedia Dramatica is first and foremost satire. Satire is protected under the First Amendment of the United States Constitution. If you want a good example of satire on television, check out A Daily Show with John Stewart or the Colbert Report on Comedy Central - but I must forewarn you that these shows are not for all audiences. With satire, it is truth wrapped in a comedic fashion - which may or may not be offensive. Yes, they can be out of line, but they are out of line to make their point. In the past, EncyclopediaDramatica has helped oust individuals from deviantArt for things such as tracing, recoloring of official work, theft, ego-maniacs, faking deaths, etc - things that are generally seen as being morally wrong. In the case of the deviants listed on Encyclopedia, the individuals who are targeted by Encyclopedia Dramatica are rightly done. Yes, it can be offensive, but they almost always provide hard evidence - through screencaptures which provide the reasoning of why they are targeted. Yes, I will admit that I visit EncyclopediaDramatica - usually to see what e-drama has passed through deviantArt without having to actually be involved in it (Usually, I use it for people not to watch). If I think that something is off in the site - for instance if I think something is an outright lie, I check the links they use - as they are legitimate.

And as for this topic, as I have said before - no one should blindly follow anyone simply because their artwork is good or because their stories or awesome - judge the individual on the basis of their character. On the reverse, no one should bash anyone because everyone else is bashing someone. Form your own opinions from the evidence.

Yes, the art of the BBA is good - but in my opinion, that's its only strength. This is not a bash, but a honest critique. Where is the plot? The title is Alliance, but where is that - I haven't seen anything for an Alliance despite the comic has been running since at least 2004. From what I know of stories and film - the creator must introduce the primary characters and get to the basis of the plot - this is what I have learned from my high school creative writing and from commentaries on films. Not to bash Kay and Erin, but I honestly don't know if they have an outline set up for the story - a how to get from point a to point b. Not to mention, fans of the comic get a very wrong idea of the physical ability of saber-toothed cats. They could not take down something with their fangs, they would break under the pressure. How a saber-toothed cat killed its prey was by knocking it over with brute force and then severing the jugular artery. While the comic is popular with furs and wolf-artists, it would not go anywhere without a serious underlying story, and the story of the BBA is fairly basic. Now I've seen serious comics - DC, Marvel, and Dark Horse - with really sub-par artwork, yet they retain popularity and cult status because of the stories they convey. Maybe there is hope for the BBA - but Kay must realize that the BBA is not the first comic that conveys the lives of animals, which she says here http://www.lansingcitypulse.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1515 - as Ginga Nagareboshi Gin (the prequel to Ginga Densetsu Weed and follows Ginga Densetsu Riki) came out in 1984, which was followed by the anime version in 1986.

I saw the KF article on ED, and its really a shame what opeople do on there, all those critics they are so cruel, and yes fans can be annoying, but cmon this is so wrong you may not like the comic, but bashing with such a twisted mind on there, ok I dont know KF past, so what havent you people especially haterz ever heard f the words FORGIVE, and GET OVER IT.I have nothing against yu, but I hate this ED thing, Drew is riht this shows how far hate can go .

What?!?!?!?!?!? Thanks for pointing that out...

Beat ya to the punch bowl.

Well I did say that ED is generally speaking not safe for people under 18... And I didn't post links to the other websites for precisely that reason... Of course, I wouldn't generally go to those other sites, as I find them disturbing on various levels.

But of course, parents should be more involved in protecting their kids from stuff on the internet and protecting their kids on the internet - but that's another rant entirely.

Back on topic. I think this thread should be left open - at least while it's fairly civil to both sides of the issue. People who dislike the BBA and Kay Fedewa should be able to speak without being bashed themselves, somewhere at least. I know deviantArt, even honest critiques have gotten extremely negative feedback by overzealous fans, if not by Kay or Erin themselves. Of course, of the overzealous fans who harass people, they generally get a stern talking to by Kay and Erin.

And I must emphasize what I have been saying all along. This is for every member of this community. Read the evidence for and against anything, know the issue, then formulate your opinion. Don't close your mind the instant someone critiques your favorite artist or whatever and attack. And don't 'bash' anything - or anyone for that matter - just because everyone else is. Think for yourself. If you just follow the herd either way, it only makes you yourself look ignorant. In other words - know the problem. Read everything that you can going into the problem. Both sides. Then judge. It is honestly the most mature way to go about any argument. It's hard, but it makes you not only look smart, but actually smart.

That means I'm four years underage! Although I didn't see anything especially offensive, truth be told, I found a lot of the stuff there dry and forgettable.

I think that Ara Darkfire's comments about the comic are fair and polite. If Kay bashes people for stuff like that, I'm against her. But posting stuff like 'OMG your comic sux! its boring and u and all the fans r stupid!!! ' is just asking to be flamed.

Seriously, all these arguments are more violent than the actual comic!

No, I wasn't being sarcastic. I've never been there, and never plan on going there either. Sorry if ya took that the wrong way!