Animation Source Forums

Well, that's a bit complicated.
When I make this site, I always have in mind that it should satisfy EVERYONE, all types of public, all ages.
So, on the fanfic side, how can I satisfy most people? I thought that the fanfics rating system would be the best thing to do.

To my mind, someone who can read a fanfic, can also read a warning. So, to me, any young people who see the warnings shouldn't read the fanfic. But it seems many don't do that, and then complain about the content.

So what should I do? Prevent all fanfics that contain violence, nudity or things like this? Well, honestly, there wouldn't be many left...

Should I insist more with the rating warnings? Well, I suppose it can be done, if the problem really comes from the fact that people aren't reading the warnings. But at the same time, I don't want to put warnings that would cover half the screen.

Or should I just leave it like this? Honestly, I don't know. I really thought that the current system was enough equilibrated to fit all situations...

I thought so too steet. And although Lone Wolf_fanwriter is right for making these guidelines, nobody should have to remove their fics because the other person doesn't like what they have to write about. Like me and many people have said, people don't have to read what they don't want to (or are not allowed to).

The writer is not in the wrong for writing anything, especially if a warning is present. If they simply give a warning, they should be able to write whatever they want and it's up to the reader if they want to read it.

Gay content, I admit, is getting very boring now and people need to chill on it (particularly the ones who write one "just because everyone else wrote one") But it should not be banned altogether. If people don't like gay fics, that's their problem. The same with incest fics. I don't like incest fics (even though i wrote one, i have my own reasons for writing it) so I avoid them. I just don't read them. I don't complain, everybody's happy.

If there could be some other kind of warning that's "mandatory" to read (for instance if a fic is rated PG-13 or R, have a warning pop up [as annoying as those are, it's probably for the better so that people can just shut their mouths about "not seeing" a warning] saying that the fic may contain adult content and ask if it's ok to read) then people won't have any right to complain.

And it's overprotective parents like Olivia's mom that rather tick me off. Reading a story is different than looking at a picture. (If your kid WANTS to read, let them read for cripes sake, a little reading never killed anyone.) And although I can see where she's coming from as a parent, they should not make others suffer for it.

And steet's right, if he were to get rid of all explicit fanfics on this site, not only would he lose a great amount of fanfics, he'd lost a great amount of visitors on the site as well.

Sing-songey time (to illustrate frustration level at the way this topic is shaping up): "You say black, I say white." "You say potato, I say potahto...you say tomato, I say tomahto"...

TikTac, I'm disappointed that you chose to remove your fics, but if you feel they're not welcome here, I'll let you decide on where to put them.
As I recall, though, the two I saw didn't seem bad at all...



There are too many who simply ignore the warning, or read it and disregard it, and then come back and flame the writer. Hypocrites.
I didn't mean to mis-interpret your actions, if I did, but I see your frustration.
Honestly, I think the best would be to leave the system how it is.
The only change I might make if I were in your position would be to put up a little statement about warnings on the page where writers submit their works (just encouraging them to put warnings if they haven't).




Correct on all accounts, Cat.
I never wanted anyone to take their fanfics off the site, and I apologize if my messages made it seem that way.
Your pop-up idea sounds reasonable, too. But were everyone to follow your example and avoid fics they don't like, we'd have a much friendlier environment for writers and readers.
It seems alot of the arguement is centered around things I may or may not have said...
So let me make myself perfectly clear:

I do not want to ban any type of fanfic.
I do not want to impose any rules.
I only want writers to put warnings (if they're even necessary) and use common sense.

-LWf

Exactly. However I think its other people who want those fanfics gone, because it's that much of a problem to them. What they need to learn is that they have no power to say what should or should not be on the site and that they need to just grit their teeth and bear it, just like many others have done. I

'm aware that there COULD be cases where people put false warnings about the content of their fic, but I haven't seen that here. At least not yet anyway.

But I hope steet keeps things (in the fanfic section) the same, cuz it wouldn't be fair to alot of people otherwise. I know "life isn't fair" but fanfics aren't my life, so why should I let an overconcerned parent make me remove what she doesn't want her kid to read (but the real qustion is, why did Olivia tell her Mom about the content of fics? Too much information? )

But yeah, LWF, people shouldn't blame you for making this topic People shouldn't have a problem lightening up on gay/incest fics (quantity-wise) and they should be fine putting a very clear warning somewhere as well.

LWF, you're one of the most reasonable moderators here on Balto Source, and I salute your logic and your fairness.

I am one of the "other people who want those fanfics gone, because it's that much of a problem to them". I don't make a fuss for religious reasons, but for moral ones. The two are not necessarily always intertwined. And, for my argument, they definitely are not. (And, as I've repeatedly said, I think people should be able to write what's in their hearts...no matter how good or bad, or trashy, it is. I STILL don't believe it belongs here. So I'm tired of people thinking I've said that they don't have the right to write what they want. I NEVER said that.)

But while pop-ups, disclaimers and warnings are all well and good, you must realize that there is still an inherent problem with this. Firstly, no kid is going to abide by those things...they don't have the personal responsibility, maturity and capacity for reason which would keep them from saying "oooh, that sounds like something cool to read!" And TEENAGERS will simply read them because violating rules...or "guidelines" is something that's not only fun, but which they feel a sense of entitlement about. (Granted that some of the writers are teenagers themselves, but therein lay a problem none of us can solve).

The crux of this problem lay in one thing: not to pin this on Steet (because the dude's working really hard, and dealing with a LOT of stress, to make this all work...and I can only imagine how tough he has it), but it is entirely hypocritical to refer to a site as "kid-friendly" when there is no means, by way of a technological program or control, to keep anyone under a certain age from reading explicit or violent fan fiction (or viewing such as fan art). This is not, currently, a kid-friendly site. If it were, such fan art and fan fictions would not be permitted (no matter the loss of membership...that could always grow again). If this site were no longer referred to as "kid-friendly", then I suspect that few people (except the most fundamental or sensitive of members) would really care all that much. Then again, ANOTHER portion of membership would be lost (and we could debate how much would be lost in this case, as opposed to the other, until we're all blue in the face, but the truth is no one would know for sure until either case happened). So it's a tough situation, admittedly.

My personal belief, and I have said this before, such fan fiction and fan art cheapens and hurts not only the innocent and wholesome nature of the Balto cartoons, but it is a deep and hurtful insult to the real dogs and people involved in the Serum Run of 1925 (I really don't give a hoot about what certain fan fic writers think of my saying that). It is a FACT. The memory of those heroes, and their sacrifices, not only deserves better...it DEMANDS it. And I will say again, emphatically, that I will rally to see any true story information taken down from this site if the "kid-friendly" moniker of this site is changed officially. Right now, I DO applaud Steet, yourself and the other mods for supporting disclaimers and warnings (even if they are consistently ignored). And I do even applaud the writers for having the common sense to put those up on their works. But it is a bandage...not a cure.

What I cannot BELIEVE is that no one has considered the damage this stuff does to the good nature of the cartoons, and especially to the real history. And worse, that they might think I'm being unreasonable for stating it! It's amazingly-selfish of people to come back with counter-criticism when I am thinking of the honor of those people...those dogs. Of the lives they saved. Of the hardships they endured. All for cheap, base entertainment. Of course, honor and morality are so often seen as questionable and inconvenient nowadays. It casts a dark shadow over the once gleaming statue of Balto...and that of Balto and Togo in Cleveland (and of everything right and honorable those statues stand for). Which reminds me (being a Civil War living historian) so much of how so many millions of Americans have come to think of Memorial Day as an excuse to have a family picnic, and a day off from work (or school), when that is the farthest from the real reason. It makes me very sad, and quite sick, to think of how selfish and self-centered people can be.

It's small-time blaming fanfic writers for that problem when Hollywood is butchering "real stories" worse than anyone here. *scoffs at Hollywood*



That may very well be, but they're only going to understand what they're exposed to on a daily basis. For example, one kid read my "Buried Secrets" fic and was confused because two boys fell in love. They didn't really have a problem with it, they just didn't get it. And the same thing goes with any other fanfic.

Kids will read whatever they want. But just because they read everything, it does not mean they'll understand it. It's not a bad thing if they don't understand something, it just means that they now have something they're eventually going to get exposed to when they're older. Take that away, one's keeping them from one of the facts of life. If they read something they're "not supposed to read" then that's out of their own curiosity and if it's a problem, then "curosity killed the cat."

And if they're going to break their parents rules constantly by reading so-called "bad" fics on this site, and steet just decides one day to get rid of them, what's going to stop them from going to other sites? Nothing. So we may as well do what's in our power to give them a fair warning HERE, so that people can continue writing fics for those who respect them.



Well, people can't write "fanfics" about real history (we'll leave that to the books) People here are writing fanfics about a cartoon BASED on a true story. Does that mean that the movie Balto is disrespecting real history? What about the sequels, huh? They hardly respected the first movie (at least to some people, they didn't). Did history get respect then? I don't think so.

They ruined a good story worse than what anyone here did, by turning what was based on a true story into pure fiction. So why is writing fanfics about a cartoon character any different? It's just as bad or good as a sequel. Just a reminder, not all of us are historians, so not all of us are going to think like one.

You've both made good cases, and I applaude you for that.
Thanks for the support, too.
But yes, I agree that despite the warnings, some kids will read the fics anyway. Heck, what would you do if someone told you not to eat a cake sitting on the counter at home? You'd probably eat it right? It's kind of the same thing in this case. Someone sees a warning on a fic and, curious about what the warning warns of, reads the fic. Go figure.
That doesn't mean we shouldn't put warnings anyway for those sensible enough to heed them if need be.
And yeah, I agree that by defenition fan fiction is just that: a fictional story or stories written by someone who enjoys a certain movie, show, book, etc...
We'll not ban nor delete those questionable fics, but only require a warning be placed.
And if a story should be found without a warning when it needs one, I or one of the other fanfic mods will place one!

Write on!
-LWf

Yes, you make a sound argument about the cartoons themselves. And I have had my problems with the way the cartoons butchered the real history (a fact that I've made plain in previous posts elsewhere on this forum). But that's not what we were talking about, was it? We're talking about fan fictions that present sexually-explicit or violent material - which is fundamentally different than the reimagining of a story by Hollywood goofs.

And I REALLY think and believe that people who have written fan fictions which feature that kind of trashy material have done far more damage to the real history than some money-grubbing Hollywood types. It's apples and oranges...

And exactly why can't people write fiction about the real history? I am certainly glad that they haven't (the trashy crap I mean). But writing fictional spin-offs of the real history? To borrow the lament of TikTac: "why can't I write what I want?"

Tsk...calm down. Maaaaaan, are YOU paranoid and itchy! Sheesh!

Enough with the tired old "tortured artist" effect, too. Being thirteen, you have NO IDEA of what it means to be out in the world, trying to make it as an artist in any forum. You just have your posturing and your angst. Which doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

Relaaaaaax...breeeeaaaathe. Iiiiin...oooouuuuut...