Animation Source Forums

Ok Well I won't answer to all this, too long
Anyway, about this :


Mmm, I could very well say the same too...Do you only know how many hours I've spent working on the site, "for free"? So I know very well this feeling of dedicating all of our free time to work, like a second job.
I only wanted to say that even with all the best efforts, it would not be possible to make an animated film up to the standard of a 4 millions dollars animated film. Yet, that doesn't seem very clear to everyone's mind.

Yes, that's exactly how I feel it

Well, fine. Forget about how I feel about the terrible animation etc. for a second. Are you telling me that they couldn't spend any more than an hour's worth of time thinking up a better plotline for the sequel of a good movie? Cuz it could not have possibly taken any more than an hour to think up the plotline of either Balto sequel (which is definately fan project material [i find that taking a step backwards, but I'll keep their low budget in mind)

I know, tell me about it! I think it'd make a lovely sequel too!

And impossible to make, this would be shocking for very young audiences. Besides the animated Balto is different and I don't think this could have been possible that way.

I'll tell you basically how it could work. Start it out as a kind of prologue, Balto's been living with Rosie for a while and then her father sells him. Balto gets transported everywhere, keep the abuse to a minimum or just show something to express his hardships (like in Spirit, how they deprived him of water and whatnot. That movie WAS rated-G) Throw in some characters Balto was sold along with, that both have comic relief and purpose in the story. Add in some action, Balto tries to make a get-away with his new friends. Have some kids recognize him, show they're raising money to save him. BOOM! Moral: miracles happen. Perfectly doable (for a kids movie, even), it just required thought. Not that hard. That kind of sequel would show more truth behind the history of Balto (in that case be very educational) and show how "not fake" the first movie was (even tho they changed things for the sake of movie-making, same thing can happen with any movie based on a true story)

Actually, I'm sorry Cat, but I didn't see that element of your post that Dingo responded to. I'll correct that oversight now...

I've often said that the real story of what happened to Balto, and his team, after the Great Serum Run would make for a very dramatic story to tell in animation (or even live action)...and it was a terrible shame that Universal and Amblimation felt the need to twist the story around under the famous Hollywood rallying cry of "dramatic (or "poetic") license". I think that does a disservice to the real dogs, and all they experienced. After all, if nothing else, look how many Balto Source members honestly BELIEVE that the real Balto was a wolf-dog (and will argue the point passionately)...and was gray/brown instead of jet black with white points...or that he mated and had puppies! Or that Steele, a fictional villianous bully, was inspired by Togo (a heroic dog who DOESN'T deserve to be compared with that character)! Or those who feel that the story shown in Balto 1 IS the actual story!

But as to whether or not some of it would be unsuitable for kids to see (as Steet suggested)? Consider, for a moment, Steele's confrontation with Balto at the sled, in the first movie; that is rather more violent than anything that could be shown of Balto's real experiences. There were, after all, only two negative experiences for the team after coming to the U.S. (in the real-life Balto's experiences). The first was Gunnar Kaasen abandoning them (probably reluctantly) under orders from Leonhard Seppala who, after all, was his boss. The second would have been their three-month "internment" (because that is exactly what it was) in the "dime-a-look" museum (after being sold to the owner, by Seppala, through a contact, or another assistant, who was probably looking after the team after Kaasen left). Where they languished with little sunlight, few visitors, and very little chance to play and exercise...wasting slowly away in a hot, dank, musty, dark room, in a quiet museum that didn't see much business.

Sure, that would be depressing for kids to see. But no more, perhaps, than the one quick shot of the dog from Lady & The Tramp, in the pound, who is looking up at the "camera" in tears.


(Sorry...this screen shot was provided to me by a MySpace associate, who blanked out the tears...as you can see. Why she did that, I don't know. But the unretouched version of this shot shows the dog with tears streaming down his face.)

Or, in the same scene, where the one dog, "Nutsy", is led down the corridor ("t'rough the one-way door", is what the character "Toughy" explains to Lady) to be euthanized (put to sleep).

And such scenes were put into a cartoon movie produced in the very conservative and strictly-regulated film industry of the 1950s. Hey, if the industry censors in the strictly conservative 1950s felt that young kids could view that scene and not be overwhelmed, then certainly a scene such as Balto's team languishing in the dime-a-look museum would pass in the overly-liberal, violence-infused early 21st century. (Or, as another example, you could take the death scenes of some of the dogs in "Eight Below"...interestingly, another Disney product.)

And in such a scene (the "dime-a-look" museum scene in a hypothetical cartoon based strictly on Balto's real story), there would be no death at all...or implied death. Only melancholy and sadness. I think it would be a powerful scene.

Well, if you ask me, my personal opinion is that the storyline in Balto 1 made almost everything about what REALLY happened in the Great Serum Run "pure garbage". Where's Togo and Fritz? How could one team cover a round trip of 674 miles (between Nenana and Nome)?? What's with creating a bunch of fictional dogs for the team, when many of the real dogs' names were known? Why create a love interest for Balto? Is it REALLY necessary? Did they have to make Balto 1 a "chick flick" in order to sell it? (Not that I don't think Jenna is an awesome character though.) Why put Balto into situations that never occurred for him (seeking out the team instead of starting with it; jumping into a race, which never occurred, to determine which dogs would be on "the" team; living in a beached, ramshackle old fishing boat with an irascible Russian snow goose; being the product of some union between a Siberian husky and a wolf)?

Incidentally (and I apologize for the double-posting), the seven members of Kaasen's twelve-dog team (Balto, Fox, Sye, Billy, Old Moctoc, Tillie and Alaska Slim) had some interesting adventures. To spell them out by way of a brief (and hopelessly inadequately-detailed) list:

1. Sometime after the Serum Run (still in 1925, I believe), seven members of the team - including Balto himself - were taken on tour of the U.S., to satisfy the press-fed urge to see Balto...and all the craze that was happening that year when word spread of what happened in the Great Serum Run. Gunnar Kaasen, the team's musher (and his wife and probably an assistant or two), accompanied them. They took a steamship from Nome to Seattle.



2. Once in Seattle, they were met by Hollywood producer Sol Lesser, who was eager to make a few short-subject movies about the team at the time (a common form of the day...like those of the comedy teams of the day, such as Laurel & Hardy and Charlie Chaplin). Lesser had his production team with him, and they apparently did some stock footage of the team in the snow-covered mountains of Washington state. They were then whisked, in style, down to Hollywood, where more footage was shot, based on scripts developed for the short subjects. Gunnar Kaasen and his wife were given a room at the posh Biltmore Hotel in Los Angeles, and so was Balto! The rest of the team were kept in a kennel on the lot where Lesser worked. Here is a link, from Internet Movie Database, of the short-subject movies Balto (and probably the team) appeared in (the dates may be the result of either mistakes in research, or else that the movies were not released until a couple of years later...as the team was in the U.S. in 1925): http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1023926.



3. Once completed with Lesser, Kaasen took the team on tour of the U.S. by train, stopping at many U.S. cities and towns. They financed this trip by appearing on-stage with various vaudeville shows (a popular multi-act form of live entertainment of the time period).



4. By the time they had worked their way around to the eastern half of the U.S., arrangements had been made for Balto to pose for the famous animal sculptor Frederick Roth (from Englewood, NJ). Roth was commissioned to create a statue of Balto (and, apparently, a plaque) for the sled dog and musher monument which would stand in New York City's Central Park. Kaasen appeared with Balto at Roth's studios, and the work was done.



5. A short while after the commissioning of the statue, Balto, Kaasen and the team appear in Central Park, NYC, amidst a crowd of dignitaries and citizens, for the dedication of the statue and monument.




6. The team begins to encounter trouble as the "steam" of the trip is starting to run out, and money is becoming a problem. As they work their way back out west, Kaasen is contacted by Seppala (probably by wire) to return to Nome. Kaasen leaves the team in the hands of what are probably assistants of his and Seppala's. Now, doubt exists about what will become of them. More vaudeville fills their travels.

7. An offer is made, by the owner of a "dime-a-look" museum store in Los Angeles. Seppala is contacted by wire, and agrees to sell the team. They then enter a dark period in their U.S. experience. By now, it's early 1926, and they would spend three sad months confined in the museum, in a dark, poorly-lit, hot musty room. A small sign on the street, in front of the museum, advertised their presence, but the museum received few visitors (such museums were becoming a worn-out fad by this time). The dogs languished with little exercise and chance to be outside, for three months.

8. George Kimble, a Cleveland, Ohio businessman, is in Los Angeles on a business trip, and chances upon the dime-a-look museum while walking down the street. He sees the sign, and remembers the press coverage off Balto's part in the Serum Run. Curious, he goes in, pays the fee, and encounters the dogs...still harnessed to their sled, laying in a despondent state in the dark room. Taking pity on them, he confronts the owner of the museum about it, but doesn't have much success. The owner complains about them not having produced the kind of profits he'd hoped for...and is thinking he'd be glad to be rid of them, that it was a mistake to ever buy them in the first place. Kimble, sensing a chance, offers to buy the team with what money he can immediately muster. The museum owner wants $2000.00. Kimble doesn't have that money on hand, or easily-accessible...but plans to raise it, and says he will purchase the team if the museum owner will only give him time. The museum owner probably makes a claim of other interested buyers, but does tell Kimble that he only has a short time before he will take other steps to sell or be rid of the team.

9. Kimble wires his contacts in the Cleveland news corps (the press) abou the situation, and asks for help in announcing the dogs' plight, and asking for donations to save them from a terrible fate. The story goes out, and immediately, other news agencies across the country get hold of it, and spread the news. A remarkable response is created, as money is donated by families and children from all over the U.S. to save Balto and his team.

10. Kimble manages to raise the $2000.00 just in the nick of time, and takes possession of the team. They are taken to a secure location outside of Los Angeles where they are bathed, cleaned up, fed and cared for for a short time. Then, they are sent by rail to Cleveland.

11. In Cleveland, a home is prepared for them at the Brookside Zoo (now the Cleveland Metroparks Zoo). A brand-new semi-circular enclosure is built for them, and preparations are made to receive the team. But first, a grand parade and picnic celebration are held, and the team is marched down the Cleveland city streets as heroes. The mayor of Cleveland makes a speech at the end of the parade, which features a now-famous and oft-quoted line..."the dog is man's best friend".

12. The team is then transported to the Brookside Zoo, where they are placed in their enclosure, and are visited by thousands of citizens eager to catch a glimpse of Balto especially, and to pet the dogs. It goes on for some weeks.

13. The dogs have retired, and spend their remaining days in the zoo, well cared-for. One-by-one, in time, they pass away. Balto, having grown old, and hobbled with arthritis, is in a bad way in 1933. A veterinarian, visiting the zoo, learns of Balto's condition, and graciously offers to end his pain and ease his passage free of charge. At the zoo, the vet, and Balto's caretaker, are the last humans to spend any time with him, as he is gently put to sleep. Sye, the youngest member of Balto's team, was the only one left alive, but would pass on a year later, lonely and sad, but lovingly cared for. Once Sye passed on, the enclosure was torn down.

Well, movie makers also have to worry about making too many characters for movies. If there are too many characters, then kids will get confused. And as for the stuff that wasn't true, you have to also think that it IS the movies, and they will jumble stuff to make it more interesting. Which was exactly why they should not have made Balto2's plotline the garbage it is, it just makes Balto 1 all the more fake and like you said before, will make kids believe the stuff that happened in Balto2 really happened, when they hear that Balto1 was based on a true story.

Me? I think I have concluded! Or were you asking someone else?

No, I just forgot to remember that I read the first part of your reply

Okily dokily do!