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A lot of movies have stereotypical characters now. Plus it's a Balto sequel, so what do you expect?

And having flaws is very different from having an extremely stereotypical role. In some ways, the stereotype makes them almost too perfect, if only because the character fits the (albeit) stereotyped role.

Too true. I get sick of hearing people say that characters who stay behind are useless or somehow inferior to those on the front line. I may have said this before, but I know a man who was in some pretty intensive overseas fighting while his wife stayed at home. Those who think his wife wasn't important or that she was somehow less for not fighting, come over and I'll introduce you so you can say it to her face, if you've got the guts. I may even scrape you off the wall afterward.



That's true. And come to think of it, isn't cat a huge fan of Steele, whom I might add also shows unmistakable parallels to racism? Game, set, match.

Yea, but guys, you're ruling out one small detail xD While the characters are entitled (I guess) to their stereotype, the boys all do stuff (with the exception of Mel, but I think it's safe to say that we can rule him out as a character at all)

There were. A lot. But I still see that the writers did include female characters doing certain things in a positive way. Dusty is on a mail team, working hard with the guys. She wasn't included just as an afterthought. She has lines. She has a name. Hell, the two wheel dogs DON'T have names and we never hear them speak! And they both at least appear to be guys. I think that says a lot about Dusty's importance in the team's status and ranking.




Overall, I still see certain female characters doing things in the movie...positive things. Maybe they all don't, and maybe the ones who do things in one don't in another. That doesn't make the movies misogynistic or otherwise prejudicial against the female gender. I simply do not see it. And I think this is flawed logic to go looking for this just to have something to talk about in lieu of new material.

And that explains your favorite character being the one who treated Jenna like eye candy and everyone else like dirt? Way logical.


I'd call it a stretch to deem it "logic" at all.

My taste in characters still doesn't change anything LOL

Maybe y'all should re-read what I deem as a "useless" character before trying to start a competition between characters.

I'm not in competition with you, Cat my dear (nor trying to draw the characters into competition with each other). Dragon Tamer is. I'll reiterate that my only intent is to discuss this and debunk this myth of misogyny in the Balto movies (beyond Steele, that is). And that there was some conscious or subconscious effort, on the part of the writers, directors and producers to entirely relegate female characters to minor or stereotypical roles.

Besides, we've already discussed, on many topics across the forum, what constitutes a "useless" or (or versus) a "useful" character. And how much of that is based upon personal opinion and experience rather than arbitrary fact. What to you might constitute a "useless" character might not to someone else. And as we have seen on the forum and Balto Source, there is a LOT of disagreement on that and a plethora of other subjects regarding the Balto properties.

Exactly, and if they don't agree what I deem a "useless" character is, then they can not agree and not get so defensive over it LOL People need to calm their face. Because if anyone reads what I had said, it applies to MANY of the male characters too. It just happens to apply to all the female characters, with the exception of Aniu.

The bears, Nikki, those henchman wolves, Niju, and Mel. Muk and Luk,

Muk and Luk: I don't even have to explain their uselessness.

Nikki: He didn't even partake in any Star/Kaltag scenes, he was just in the background.

Nuk, Yak, and Sumac: Didn't do anything outside of showing Niju has followers. Since basically the entire pack was on Niju's side by the end of the second act, there was no need for minions. (if they effected the wolves' politcal views like Kamaji did in Mowgli's Story, then they would've had a purpose).

Niju: Why didn't Niju need to exist? Because the wolves were already struggling against nature. (It's like why any version of The Titanic doesn't need a bad guy.)

Mel: You know what? He's too easy.

Aleu: Some may not deem Aleu as useless because she's the star of the second movie, and that makes sense, buuut you all know how I feel about that abomination.

Jenna: Some may not deem Jenna as useless because she saved Balto from the grizzly, but to me, and many many many other people, that act of "bravery," (and since we never see anything like that from her again, from the first movie onward and continuing onto the next TWO movies, due to poor writing) it is seen as just a silly ploy by movie makers to make her seem more useful than she actually is. Now, is she the only character this ever applies to? Of course not. Basically any "love interest" you see in any work doesn't need to be there.

Why didn't I mention Kodi's friends? Because they show how easily persuaded he is by his peers, and how much the dogs expected more greatness from Balto. Plus I'm not against giving identities to any sled dogs, even if they don't say much.



Because that role was already given to ROSIE. She was the reason Balto did anything, not Jenna. Ultimately Jenna didn't need to give Balto his extra faith and confidence. Balto was in the end inspired by his heritage (or some crap like that) and was reminded by Boris's words of what he is capable of. But nobody actually believes that, despite what's said, on account of we get waaaay more screentime with Jenna.

I'm not even gonna touch on the next two movies because at that point any use she may have had is gone. Balto had gone after Aleu on his own, even tho she was just as much his daughter as Jenna's (what excuse would there have been for Perdita to be left behind? Both she and Pongo knew it would be dangerous, but ultimately it was their children who were in trouble, so they both had to do something about it.)

JC and I are both aware that the story of Balto could've done without a silly romantic subplot, and tho he disagrees with me on Jenna's uselessness, my belief, and I can't believe I HAVE to repeat myself, is that if the story can be told without a character, then there's no need for that character. (And the movie managed to exclude any mention of the real dogs on Balto's team to squeeze in a love interest that never existed in the first place, but I digress)

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You seem to equate uselessness with a lack of necessity. Well just because someone or something isn't 100% necessary doesn't make them useless, Ms. Minimalist. There are people today walking around without their stomachs, but only an absolute dunderhead would say the stomach isn't useful or important. heck, there's at least one guy who no longer has a pulse because his regular heart stopped beating and was replaced with a pump. So is a pulse necessary? Perhaps not in the strictest sense, but it's certainly worth having.

In case the medical analogy is too obscure for you, let me put it in direct terms: I got along just fine before I got my dog. Is she useless? No. If nothing else, walking her provides me with the motivation to get some excercise and fresh air when I'd otherwise lack the urge to do so. Having her around livens the place up, and I have more confidence walking at night, which I sometimes have to do (we don't live in a high-crime area, but there are carnivores about that I'd really rather not tangle with unarmed or alone). Could I live without her? Sure. I could wak three or five times a day without her along, I could carry a weapon and make noise if I heard there was a cougar or bear in the area, all without the need of a dog. But she is still helpful.

My younger brother. Sure, he's got his faults, and I could live a whole decade without seeing or talking to him if I had to. But he's good with carpentry and fun to have around, so you'd better believe he's useful, and I'm looking forward to having him come up here. Frankly, I'd just as soon have him move in. I'm hoping to build a house if the finances come together, or buy and renovate one, and despite all the contractors and carpenters I know with more years' work experience than he has of living experience, but I still expect he'd make a valuable contribution to the project one way or another.

Your remarks show no grasp of the concept of supporting characters, whether in real life or in fiction. As for having to repeat yourself, spouting ignorance until you turn blue won't make it intelligent.

Okay, I'm going to NOT read that wall of text, and remind you that this is a movie. Not real life. There's rules to movies.

This from the lady who just criticized them for putting something into the movie that was never in the actual event. Okay, since I'm tossing out too much reality, let me sum it up for you: Supporting characters. Just because someone is not absolutely indespensible does not make them useless. It doesn't work that way in real life or movies. Star Wars could have theoretically managed without Chewbacca or 3P0. Spider-Man could be re-written without Mary Jane or Aunt May. Batman could manage without Alfred - just ask Terry McGuinness. And I could go on listing for hours if I really wanted to.

Ummm, again, not to take sides in this particular little scrap between you two love birds ( ) but I have a couple of very relevant links for you which you really ought to consider. And while these are really intended for literary works, which by their very nature are more developed and complex than anything on the big or small screen (live-action OR animated)*, the concepts hold pretty much as true in that industry as well as in literature. And, in furtherance of my previous points, while the Balto properties are far from epic works of animation, they are also far from the worst, and certainly not loaded with useless secondary, supporting or incidental characters. lol Just sayin'...

(* I say this because I know that, after looking at these links, if you do, you're going to lambaste the Balto movies again after drawing pointed and all-too-literal comparisons between what is said on those pages and what appears in the movies. Lol The point being, however, is that, just as in literature, in movies and other works of the film industry, there are secondary, supporting and incidental characters which help to establish, support and move a story along. They are an important part of it. They are definitely not "useless". Nor are they, by their very nature, as developed as the main characters.)

http://www.writersdigest.com/whats-new/how-to-write-effective-supporting-characters

http://www.ellenjackson.net/secondary_characters_61471.htm

I'd make a crack about the old "Too long, did not read" rebuttal, butI think I'll quit while I'm ahead on that one.

I'm aware of what supporting characters are xD But in literature it's different, because you can have hundreds of characters with distinctive traits and give any information you want on them in just a few sentences. You can't do that with movies, or people get confused. The only way people are effected by supporting characters in movies is if they do something worth noting (and doesn't feel contrived by poor writing or other unfortunate things, I might add)

Jenna's part in the first movie was Rosie and Boris's balled into one. Supporting characters strengthen the plot of a story. What did Jenna do differently from those two besides give Balto "romantic" love in his life? I mean, she wasn't the only character to believe in him. She wasn't even the reason Balto was doing the things he was doing (at least that's what we the audience are supposed to believe) And she didn't change Balto's perspective on things. To an extent, she kind of changes more than Balto does, but for those previous reasons, she's not a good supporting character because she isn't more useful than either Rosie or Boris, and she doesn't do anything they haven't already done. I understand the value in consistency, but in this case? Meh.

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I mean if I was watching a version of Balto with Jenna not in it, I wouldn't exactly think to myself "You know what was missing? Balto needed a girlfriend."

You considered that little bit I posted "too long"?