Animation Source Forums

Can't find it.

You gotta be kidding me... oy...

Here are my thoughts on the whole Kopa matter. I'm not saying that what I think is true, but it's just my own personal opinion.

At the end of The Lion King, there is a cub presented to the pridelands - obviously the child of Simba and Nala. I think that the genderless cub Disney put at the end of the film, known during the production as "Fluffy", was put at the end in case Disney decided to create a sequel of the movie. During the production of Simba's Pride, they must have decided to make "Fluffy" a lioness - mainly because having another male cub would make the movie a bit repetitive. When TLK 6 New Adventures was published, it was approved by Disney that Simba and Nala indeed did have a male cub named Kopa. Still sticking with the original plan of not having another male as a main character, Kopa was never mentioned in the film.

Although the character was never mentioned, this does not mean that he does not exist in the lion king universe. Kopa was most likely murdered, exiled, or left to live as a rogue because the royal life did not suit him - sort of like how Kiara tells Simba she doesn't want to be queen.

This is what I think about the whole Kopa deal, whether it's totally wrong or makes perfect sense.

What am Insupposed to see?! I'm supposed to stare at the text until I see Kopa's picture?!

here's my idea on this RIDICULOUS KOPA matter :
in the end of TLK is NOT KOPA ! here's why :
today i will be discussing about kopa. and why he is not the cub in the end of TLK.





theory # 1: '' zira murdered him ''


that theory is not possible ! 1. did we see any outsiders in TLK ? especially zira ? no. what year was kopa existent ? 1994 in those lion king six new adventures books. zira ? 1998 in simba's pride. nuka was a teenager in tlk2:SP right ? then that would make it impossible for zira to murder kopa , 4 year gap , right ? that would make kopa a teenager , or a young adult , and there for , he would be able to defend for himself. and Disney for sure would not show violence in there animated films , right ? so that theory is proved wrong ! and , who did zira really want to kill ? simba ! NOT''kopa''


NEVER KOPA !


theory # 2: kopa vitani


that is also wrong ! like i said with zira , 4 year gap ! 1994 - 1998 ? kopa would be either a teen or a young adult when vitani was a cub ? O.o that would also be gross ! that theory , also proved wrong !


theory # 3: '' the cub in the end of tlk is a boy , the books say so.''

that theory is also wrong ! just because those books where written for TLK , does not mean those books where right. matter and fact , those books where not writtin by tlk's flim makers. they where made by people who loved the movie , and made books after the film was released. far as books , like the art of the lion king and other books made by the filmmaker's , they the cub was a genderless , fluffy. NOT KOPA ! and this link was written in 1993 , a year before TLK was released. they clearly state that the cub was just a ''newborn cub ''. tons of evidence there.

theory # 4 : '' THE CUB IN THE END OF tlk is different than tlksp''

not true ! in fact the animators that made simba's pride where different people !

theory # 5 : '' the cub in the end of tlk is a male ''

not true ! the cub probably got the ear rims from sarabi. [don't tell me sarabi male now ? ] and it did not have the paint on it's forehead , again , female trait. the cub's chest connected all the way , another female trait. the cub's paws where close , another female trait , meaning , THE CUB IN THE END OF TLK IS FEMALE , FLUFFY / KIARA!

better ?

Kopa us a fan name, right?

yep. just listen to me and elchitco. we are the only one's it seems to have the truth in us.

@ChingChongChi-Neez - I think BrownWolf means this -> http://www.animationsource.org/lion_kin ... 19886.html . That is Kopa's character page on the main Lion King Source page, it gives you pictures and a description there.



@TLKGIRL98 - There was never a four year gap in between movies. The "gap" was just the years that the movies were released. Just because the movies were released at different times doesn't effect the timeline of the story. If it did, Star Wars would be like Back to the Future. the reason you don't see any of the outsiders in the first TLK movie was because they didn't have their own character development. Of course they were there, but the people who made TLK 2 didn't make characters yet for those particular people. When TLK was first released, Disney wouldn't know if they were going to make a second one. You don't know automatically after a movie is released if there is ever going to be a sequel because the movie could lack in popularity and not have enough support for a second film.

The "Zira kills Kopa" theory is an explanation for why she could have been banished. The just as easily could have been banished for allying with Scar and had nothing to do with Kopa. And even if Zira did kill Kopa, it would be to get revenge on Simba - to show him what it is like to loose someone who you love.

With the "Kopa and Vitani" theory, its just something that a fan made up to tie the two pride together more than just Kovu and Kiara. Also, you're saying that Kopa didn't exist in the films but you're also saying that there was a four year gap... If there was this gap, then who would be the cub at the beginning of the first Lion King? Kiara can't possibly be a cub for four years.

The cub at the end of TLK is supposed to be Kiara, according to Simba's Pride. The only reason they have different designs is because the creators of Simba's Pride didn't want there to be a Simba look alike and have the movie basically repeat itself - so they made Kiara.

According to the books which, having been approved by Disney, are official pieces in the Lion King Franchise/Universe. This doesn't mean that Kopa was Fluffy but it doesn't mean that Kiara was Fluffy either. The only way we would ever know was if Disney made a film actually featuring Kopa and giving an explanation to what happened to him, how Zira was banished, etc.

Here are pics of Fluffy and Kiara. The film makers obviously did their best to make Kiara look like the cub at the end of TLK without making her look like a Simba look alike.

There is no "truth" but there isn't anything that is a Lie either. Its just more or less Kopa.

i saw a morph of fluffy/kiara. the only difference is that kiara has more chubbiness and the ear rims are not there.

We're not the only ones.



And the fur colour is different, and the eyes, and Kiara is bigger.



As if Simba didn't know...As if the entire thing didn't start from Simba losing someone he loved. But of course Zira might not be thinking straight. But again, a murdered/lost child simply doesn't fit into the characters' behaviour and choices in any deeper look into it.



But we already know. After Kopa was published they just called it Fluffy with no gender, so evidently they did not mean it to be Kopa - and then they combined Fluffy to Kiara in the official trailer. So there in fact is no way they could make the cub Kopa in the movies without contradicting themselves. Contradicting an unidentified character's design is one thing. Contradicting an entire identity is a very different thing. I mean they could do it, but highly likely wwouldn't.




There is no lie (officially) but there is a truth. The truth is the cub is Kiara in TLK2:SP's story. Because of what the trailer shows and what one of the animators of the film has said in an interview. For canon the only truth is the name "Fluffy".

we are 'nt ?

Revenge has strange ways of working, even or not, so Zira possibly didn't care about Mufasa's death and the effect on Simba and just wanted him to feel that pain all over again. And murdering someone is right up Zira's alley. Though the whole Zira killing Kopa act never happened and Kopa left the pridelands voluntarily, to live as a rogue.




That's the problem with sequels, they contradict A LOT.





Exactly. I think that this whole Kopa/Kiara/Fluffy matter would be settled if people stopped looking so far into things like comparing designs of the cubs and feminine/masculine traits of the characters is looking too far into things. We should just accept that the cub at the end of the first Lion King was "Fluffy" - not Kopa nor Kiara - and the cub at the beginning of Simba's Pride was decidedly Kiara.

''Kopa left the pridelands voluntarily, to live as a rogue.''
was that a fan 's opion , or yours ?

Yes, but there are other characters too whom Kopa's death would deeply affect and their behaviour and choices scream against any lost child ever having existed.



But they don't have to. And in The Lion King's case, the only current sequel doesn't contradict anything but the cub's design & ceremony scene. The rest of the differences seeing to the original, are just plausible additions thrown in and left unexplained. Or am I forgetting something?

Neither, it was just a suggestion to how Kopa could have vanished without relating to Zira whatsoever. I was just saying that he could have left the pridelands voluntarily to become a rogue or search for a new pride. Unlikely but possible.



You might have missed every time Simba sent Timon and Pumbaa out to watch Kiara, to make sure nothing happened to her. Sure one could say he was just an overprotective father, since what happened to him as a cub, but he should know that Scar is dead. The only reason he would hate Zira so much and keep Kiara under watch every time she set paw near the outlands would be that she had done something terrible to another important cub, Kopa - the prince and probably Zira's target - and he didn't want Kiara being killed as well. Then again this could never have happened and Simba was just paranoid, but there are so many holes in the Lion King storyline that we can't piece it together.



Again, looking far too into things. Everyone is comparing the cubs fur color, markings, weight, structure when they should just accept that the cub at the end of the first film was KIARA. This was said in the second film and everyone should drop the matter and let it go. Whether Kopa ever existed in the films or didn't, we just have to accept what Disney has given us and move on. Debating about a cub is kind of pointless, as much as people think that "Fluffy" was Kopa, there is just too many holes in the Lion King storyline.



But wait; You know what I just remembered? Zira was NEVER mentioned, not once, in Six New Adventures. So that means she must have been exiled before Kopa was born? Most likely. So what happened to Kopa? He probably left the pride to live as a rogue, as I said before.