Animation Source Forums

I have to agree with all of what UK said, she correct on everything. I have to mention this though, Togo did not leave on his own, Steet ordered him to and if Togo would have succeeded in what he tryed to do the whole mess wouldn't have gone further because the only way to put out a flame is be extinguishing the base just like he tryed to do.

Togo has been around since the beginning, he got to know the members, the staff and the site, anyone who knew him well knew hes cared about everyone and the site, especially when not many others did. He tryed to put out the flame that was turning the reason were all here to ashs, preserving what this site is for and thats dedication to true legends which alot seem to forget and waste there time fighting with one another, the legends memory has been tarnished by non stop immature drama, do you think they would be proud of this place like they once were? Ask yourselves that and remember why you came here to begin with.

This place was once a paradise to be a part of the legends memory now its a political war zone reduced to ash by immature political warfare like an immature kid with a gun, and in this war did anyone win? No, everyone lost, including members who weren't even involved but just wanted to have a good time here with good friends, but all they saw was a grand demonstration of how cruel we can be to one another, instead of how caring we could be and should be, its heartbreaking and sad.

That is a matter of opinion. It is not an undisputable fact.


Steet most certainly did NOT order to him to go, he chose to leave on his own because he couldn't come to terms with steet's decision regarding this matter. That much is documented fact.


Succeeded? In silencing and punishing certain people he doesn't personally like? That's how a mess is solved, and flames are halted? Interesting...


Asserting that Togo (or any member, staffer or not) "cares about everyone and the site" is ludicrous. That is not true of any member ON this site. There are all manner of people who have (and play) favorites, have friends and enemies, flame OR overreact to things which aren't flames, etc. Togo is just as human as anyone else, with the same faults. He's hardly a saint. Are we canonizing him now?


No...he didn't "try to put out the flame"...he contributed to it. Documentation could very easily be provided. But it wouldn't survive very long here.

We all SHOULD care about the true legends, and (beyond Balto) enjoy the fandom of our favorite cartoon movies. However, as someone has already said on steet's fan news comments (in the latest one), not everyone's here for Balto and the cartoons. Some are here simply to promote their artwork and other works. Seems to me to be an extraneous reason to come to a FAN site, but then, I could care less in the end about their reasons. I have the love of the real history behind the Balto movie, my enjoyment of being a fan, and the burden of this on-going nonsense to contend with.

Spreading misinformation does little to resolve it, Ecliptica.

Well. Thanks?
Buuut this is a rant topic and I was ranting. Nothing I said is really any more right or wrong than what everyone else said. Most of us are venting frustrated feelings and it's not often change comes from ranting.
RJ had a better and more well-thought-out reply, and some others who weren't so "involved".



Togo left on his own. xD

Steet had nothing to do with it aside from removing Togo as admin after Togo asked him to.
It's a shame Togo's gone but Steet didn't order him to leave.

Togo said he was ordered to, but anyway I still stand behind what I said especially about why were here to begin with, I also don't think this will be the last war either unless people can remember that, if not I don't have much faith that this place will survive, so lets see if we all can change another most probable negative to a positive outcome after letting out some heat^^

Togo left on his own, he wasn't ordered to. I don't know where you got that idea.

......The full conversation.

Im with those who are sick of these things, so Im just gonna say what I think is part(if not all) of the reason we even have these problems.

Simply put, its easy. Easy to overreact, easy to write things you would otherwise NEVER use in an actual discussion face to face. Written remarks,comments and opinions, tend to make a deeper impression some times, and since you dont have to face the person your hacking down on, its much easier to do so in a way that triggers further, more angry reactions, escalating out of controll in a matter of minutes. If people could just imagine how they were to react if they themselves got the exact same reply to a opinion of theirs, that they are about to send, we would have lot less anger. Common courtesy counts everywhere, just because you never see the person youre talking down on, it dosent mean they dont react in a way that can be seen as hurt or anger.
Regarding this whole mess, I think these reasons apply. People dont always think before they post, things therefore get more serious than they really are, people get mad, people fight, and then this happen.
Someone mentioned rights, aint there something called a right to have an opinion of your own? I certainly never heard of the right to "criticize others opinion, simply because its different from mine".

I think that all parties have done some wrong in this case, but it started with overreacting to JCs opinions, wich he is entitled to, so Im with JC on this one. This is my opinion, and if you who reads this feels like calling me names, or agree with me, or whatever. Think about what you have written before you press that "Submit" button. If what you have written is something you wouldnt have said to my face, press Ctrl-A-Delete to avoid a fight, and lets get on with our lifes. If you can honestly say you would be comfortable saying this to my face, then fire away. I dont mind my opinion being challenged, but: "Because I dont like your opinion and thinks that mine is the only right one" simply dosent hold water.

I have done my research on the topic, and read the "root" threads. I have to say I cant find one shred of evidance to incriminate JC. The ban was obviously made on a grudge, and Steet's agreeing was most likely out of aliegance to togo. Personally, I belive animation source is probably much better off without the corruption that calls himself Togo. Unfortunatly, the issue runs much deeper then just Togo. Prior to that news post, I was completely ignorant of the actions of the administration. When I became aware of them, the shear corruption and favoritism, I was, and am, disgusted. I never expected animation source to harbor such poor, partial, and disogranized administration. I have never seen a more damaged, more corrupt governing body. As I stated, I am not in the least bit ignorant on this issue, I have read up on it quite thuroughly since first hearing about it. The idea that JC deserved a ban was completely ironious. Anyone who wasn't partial to Togo can see that, as those that are probably haven't bothered to do the reading.

Now, it is worthy of note that I am not blindly standing behind JC. I am standing with JC for our shared prinicples. I do not approve of the unfair actions taken by this administration, and I no longer trust it.

Again, I have read all the "root" threads, and I can't find any flaming, trolling, or baiting on the part of JC. Appearently, this administration and the members that blindly fallow it as I once did cannot tell the differance between a logical argument and a flame. I say this as someone who has argued with JC in the past.

I am not here to blindly defend JC. I had no prior aligance to either JC or Togo. I am here to defend the principles JC and I stand for, freedom and impartial government. Arguments are a fact of forums. If you provide people with a place to chat, they will argue. I'm sure there isnt a single instant messenger that was intended for pollitical arguments, however, thats never stopped me from having prolonged and passionate political arguments on them, and no ill or predudice against my opponent has ever come of it. I have argued on that topic with one of my closest online friends, a long and passionate argument. Despite that, neither of us hold any grudge against eachother, and are still just as strong friends as we were. Any mature person can see the differance between a logical argument and a flame, and can argue with someone logically and sensibly and hold no grudge afterword.

Any admin inclined to throw his or her weight around is by no means a good admin. Prior to this issue, I never saw that inclination here at animation source, and was quite astonished that it existed. I am shocked by whats been happening here. I expected animation source to eventually die like they most do, the flow of visitors ceasing, yet it appears to be dying from oppressive and unfair administration, I fate that I never expected.

Now, if any of this message is edited against my will or I am warned for it, it will prove my point, and show that the administration cannot argue against it, and in such a situation, will resort to any method to save face.

I don't have high hopes for Animation Source if it continues like it does, but I dont intend to go post any "Im leaving forever" topics, because I hope that wont be the case. I hope it wont come to that.

The "Root threads" go back at least one and a half years if not more.

There's always been problems surrounding JC on AS (whether they were his fault or someone else's fault - both have happened in the past.)

I think easiest way of putting it is; everyone went and screwed up, rather royally, in one way or another.

Whether it was who did what at the time, who said what to others behind backs, who got themselves far too heated over it all (lol me) etc.

To those who continue to speak in my defense, or at least to see things from a BALANCED point of view rather than just the warped "evil baddie-bad trolling flamer guy scared away our mostest favoritest admin, liek, EVERRRR!", my gratitude for your kind words and your wisdom know no bounds.

And most recently to you, silwer-paw, and to you, Balto-the-WOlf-Dog! (I know, BTWD...we actually have debated most pointedly in the past...sometimes it devolved into an argument. However, we always managed to sort it out the way MATURE people do, rather than letting it devolve further into something like what we've all been talking about so passionately in this topic (and elsewhere). I guess there are a few bright spots amidst all of the noise.

I liken that to how CatWhoHas14Tails and I have found common ground in conversations these last many months. Even to the point of joking about our old arguments (and they were sometimes real knock-down, drag-'em-outs)...and joking (somewhat ruefully at times) about the strange and often ridiculous stuff that goes on here...including stuff like this very situation. It is telling that she and I can get along so very well now, when we once couldn't stand each other at all. Are we friends now? I don't know. But we both sure can talk civilly, maturely, friendly and humorously, and can joke and jest as if nothing ever were wrong. I consider that a great victory. And THAT, my dear readers, is what has resulted, sooner or later, with almost every person I have ever argued or fought with. Only those with the incapacity to see past the end of their own stiff noses still hold grudges and bring about stuff like this current situation. (Sorry, Cat, for making mention of that! But I thought it was a positive example...)

Whatever the claims about there "always being problems" with me on here (a rather egregious exaggeration, if you want to know), the facts speak for themselves. And those with whom I have had differences in the past (some of whom have posted here in support of me, whether or not they cared to admit that differences once existed) are all people I can now count as at least sympathetic to me, if not openly supportive. Regardless of what ANYONE says about me here, I have that. And that is bigger and more meaningful than any of these exhorbitant and very exaggerated negative claims about what and who I am and have been. And at least one of those people who posted such negative claims here (repeatedly) knows that all too well. But how convenient that that person has managed to let that slip their mind ever so easily...

I don't recall saying "JC is a troll". Do feel free to quote where I said that and I'll apologise but I'm pretty sure I didn't.

What I did say; is that you're no completely innocent party.
Not about the explosion in the shoutbox, that was in another league entirely.

But about the problems that have, indeed, surrounded you for a long time on this site. In which case the facts also speak for themself.
Incase you forget, I originally befriended you because everyone was all "Don't go near Seppala! He's horrible and mean!" and I felt like actually getting to know you myself and making my own opinion and that was years ago.
It had nothing to do with anything this recent kerfuffle was about.

Am I saying it's all always your fault? No.
Am I saying this recent mess is all your fault? No.
Am I saying you're "an evil baddie-bad trolling flamer guy"? No.
Am I saying you're all to blame for Togo leaving? No.
Am I saying you played a part in all of this, no matter how big or small? Yes.

Sitting around soaking up all positive opinions about yourself and acting as if anyone who has a negative is obviously influenced by lies and rumour is just as childish as everyone getting so hot under the collar about it all.

(And for everyone's information; YES I include myself as one of those people who acted childishly and got all hot under the collar to no avail at all.)

Well, a preface before I go into the quote snippet above: that response of mine which you were replying to, in your last post, referred to more than just you. I should think that would have been obvious. Nevertheless...

"Sitting around and soaking up all positive opinions about..." myself? So, in other words, by expressing appreciation for those who actually spoke up in my defense, instead of going with the "mob rule", as Ghost-Unit has so eloquently called it, who are so eager to condemn me simply because Togo left in a tiff because steet ordered me to be unbanned, I am now soaking up positive vibes? Gosh, what a terrible thing to do. And by agreeing with them, I am doing a bad thing? Would you rather I flung myself repeatedly to the ground and threw myself upon some proverbial sword here?

And then, "acting as if anyone who has a negative is obviously influenced by lies and rumour"? Wow, that's sure nothing like Togo's repeated assertions about how my use of language can twist people into believing anything. Or his direct quote, from his melodramatic departure conversation with steet:

"JC alone can destroy all the work I have done over the years to build a professional staff on BS...JC is setting all my online friends against me, and this is not worth it anymore."

Most people who have a negative opinion here about me HAVE absorbed a lot of misinformation and exaggeration (and outright lies) which have been nursed and milked for years. There has been an abiding prejudice inherent in the staff, specifically, against me because of the very thing you have leveled against me...that I am involved in more arguments than anyone else on this site (which I still maintain is without merit and unprovable).

I have admitted the guilt I actually AM responsible for...and I will NOT admit to anything else that I refuse to take blame for...especially the aggrandized baloney. And I have offered a blanket apology to anyone not directly involved with this vengeful nonsense which we both know is still going on. You know it and I know it. And we both know exactly who is involved. There is no logic in denying that or glazing over it.

I am relieved to see you admitting to being hot under the collar over what happened. And for what it's worth, I am honestly sorry that I was short with you last week on Skype. I was angry. Not at you. But at the notion that you wanted me to acknowledge the things you've been apportioning to me here in this topic. As I said to you in private, I am sick of people heaping stuff on me because they cannot understand WHY I stand my ground when I am attacked and wrongly accused, instead of refusing to be a "good boy" and take it on the chin no matter the right or wrong of it (which is almost ALWAYS the latter...and you darned well know that too).

But to assert that I no longer "give a stuff about" you or what you have to say...over ONE heated exchange in the midst of the hammer stroke falling, that flies in the face of everything that has gone before, UK. As does calling me a "former friend". And was pretty darned harsh of you. In fact, it was plain mean. You, in fact, were just as hot under the collar and short with me as I was with you. For that, we are BOTH guilty.

I have to say I'm not on anyone's side in this matter. I think this whole thing is just wanky, stupid, and the perfect example of making a mountain out of a molehill.

The only two things I'll say are the following;

1. Announcing what should've been a private matter between staff and a certain member to the whole site was not only stupid but wildly unprofessional.

2. Shame on everyone involved for dragging the whole site into this battle and making people pick sides in what should never have been the site's problem in the first place. Not only that but using it as leverage to garner buttpats from members and just throwing gasoline on the fire is disgusting. Shame. On. All. Of. You.