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Wonderful post. ^.^ It's true ; American Pit Bull Terriers are a very wonderful breed. Besides what they were originally intended for.

"I see no desire or interest at all in "standing up" for this breed. It's just too much of a problem...because of the idiots who think it's a macho status symbol, conferring them with some imaginary power and influence over others. People who revel in the fear the breed causes in good, decent, average citizens. And then there's the dog fighters. And even reputable breeders just CANNOT control that. PERIOD."

Actually, it's not just this breed. It's actually become some sort of "fad" concerning dog breeds ; previously ((I CAN get you the exact dates, but they're not at hand at the moment)) German Shepherds, a hard-working breed which I'm sure you've heard of, was said to be a "dangerous" breed. Why? Because GSDs ((German Shepherd Dogs)) are big dogs, they cause more fear in people because they can go more damage than your average Corgi.

And then there was the turn of "bad dog" fame for the Dobermans, I think it was.

And then the Rotties.

And now it's the American Pit Bull Terrier's turn to be dramatized by the media to be big, bad, and dangerous breeds.

How much do you know of the APBT, JerseyCaptain?

Yes, Pits were bred and born to fight OTHER dogs. Not HUMANS. Pits were bred to fight other dogs in a ring / pit, and if a Pit bit it's owner when the owner was trying to heal an injured Pit's injuries, then the dog was usually put down. The American Pit Bull Terrier is actually a very human-loving breed ; however they still have some dog aggression in them which is not in EVERY Pit. It's like any other dog - if enough socialization and good, positive methods are used then the dog will grow up learning what their owner's want them to learn.

Pits used to be the #1 farm dog, since they were also used in baiting bulls for butcherer's. Do you know there was a rumor, when bull-baiting was still allowed, that if you baited a bull it made the meat more tender? Back then it used to be required that you bait a bull if you were going to sell the meat. Which is where the APBT, Old English Bull Dog, and other terrier bull breeds came in handy.

Pit Bulls is not what every one thinks.

And, from what I gather, you're implying that APBTs should be destroyed because people FEAR them? Every one fears some thing, and a lot of people fear LARGE breed dogs in general. Does that mean that we should destroy all large breeds, such as shepherds and sheep dogs? What about small dogs? Small dogs are usually more disliked because of their barking and shedding. Should we just wipe out all of the dog breeds for the sake of keeping people safe from a FEAR?

"Personally, I don't like pit bulls. Though I am not a militant anti-pit bull person. I am, however, a realist. My thinking is based upon research and empirical evidence, and what is out there that is reliable. But I constantly marvel at the often fantastic and far-fetched things that hardcore and militant pit bull afficinados, apologists and grassroots (but ill-informed) supporters want the general populace to believe about the breed...using carefully-doctored or specially-posed pictures with melodramatic tag lines added to them, or a carefully-selected, well-socialized (and heavily-trained) pit bull as examples as why they believe the general public, the lawmakers, and the media have an evil, biased and cruel view of the breed."

My thinking is also based upon facts. And no, I don't try to illude myself into thinking that APBTs are loved creatures who are all treated fairly and all that. I know a lot of people abuse these dogs, some without even meaning to. This breed is not for everyone. It does not mean the breed should become extinct for some thing humans did - we created this breed to be dog-aggressive, and THEN we made them where a lot of them are aggressive to people...so, what? The breed didn't work out as planned, so we should just give up and destroy them all? No. Nononono.

I also agree with Firepaw on a lot of points...nicely said. ^_^

Lets lay down a few facts on American Pit Bull Terriers, not "pitbulls".


"Pit bull" is a term thrown around by too many people. Dogs who are classified as "pit bulls" include:
Fila Brasileros
Boxers
Presa Canarios
Cane Corsos
Dogo Argentinos
Brazilian Mastiffs
American Pit Bull Terriers
Staffordshire Bull Terriers
American Staffordshire Bull Terriers
American Bulldogs

All BULL BAITING breeds. They were NEVER bred in the beginning for dog fighting. They were bred as massive dogs with big muscles that could latch on to a bull's nose and hold on, and had a high pain tolerance. Later down the line, people reformed them into dog fighters. They were also bred to be human friendly, and, like someone already stated, if they were to bite an owner/handler, would most likely be put to sleep. If you'd like to know true gladiators, dogs used for both attacking people and fighting dogs, then look to the English and Neopolitan Mastiffs.

APBTs, or any other dog, for that matter, do not come equipped with locking jaws. Jaws locking is a myth. The APBT gains this reputation becuse it is a terrier, which gives it its tenacity, drive, and desire to continue, and was also bred with a high pain tolerance. In truth, the larger a dogs head, the higher the PSI (pounds per square inch). That said, you put a pit against a chihuahua, the pit's jaws would be stronger, and if you were to put a mastiff against a pit, the mastiff would inflict a lot more damage. The bigger the dogs head, the stronger its' jaws, the more capability it has to inflict serious damage.

Unsugarcoated, unbiased, however you will call it, the American Temperament Testing Association [http://www.atts.org/] (under which statistics from around the nation are recorded), APBTs and their bully friends passed with an almost 84% pass range in temperament testing, including bite inhibition, noise sensitivity, and canine/food/toy aggression. That's around the same as a Golden, considered a great family dog. APBTs passed higher than Cocker Spaniels around the nation, and almost 6% higher than the all-American Collie.

[first number is tested, second is those who passed, third is those who failed, fourth is passing percentile]

AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER 586 494 92 84.3%
AMERICAN STAFFORDSHIRE TERRIER 548 457 91 83.4%
AMERICAN BULLDOG 151 127 24 84.1%
DOGO ARGENTINO 10 9 1 90.0%
DOGO CANARIO 2 2 0 100.0%
COCKER SPANIEL 219 179 40 81.7%
COLLIE 824 654 170 79.4%

It is unsafe to leave ANY dog with a child. And, while the APBT was never really a "babysitter", it and it's bully companions have earned the nickname "Nanny Dog", that is to say, if brought up right, just like any other dog, they can be amazing with children. Saying it's an exaggeration that it's unsafe to leave any dog with a child is ridiculous, and it's you talking out of your ***.

Baby Mauled to Death by Siberian Husky

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/st ... 02,00.html

Pomeranian Kills Baby

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... 155331.DTL

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/US/10/09/p ... .kills.ap/

And oh my, look, attacks by other dogs.

http://www.understand-a-bull.com/Articl ... gsBite.htm

...And what does this teach us? No dog, no matter how "family-friendly", should be left alone with children.


That's just a tidbit. If you'd like more, feel free to keep commenting. ;]

Thanks I totally agree

Unless I'm missing something here, I don't know where you're getting that from...? Collies are British.

Yeh, I know that had nothing to do with the topic at hand. Just needed to point it out.

No, you've got it right. I'm not saying All-American in a sense of breed history, but more as an American icon through the years, IE the rough collie Lassie, just like Rin-Tin-Tin was the all American Dog, though its roots are still German.

Ah, I see what you mean now. xD

Yessir, Captain! -Salutes-


<b>The Pit-Bull Paparazzi</b>
<u>By Kin Campbell Thorton, (American Pit Bull Terrier mag of The Popular Dog Series))</u>
<i>"-A century ago, even 50 years ago, APBTs were well-respected members of society. A pit-bull mix named Stubby fought in World War I and still holds the title of most decorated war dog in U.S history. Petey - the canine buddy of Spanky, Alfalfa, and Buckwheat in the <b>Our Gang/Little Rascals</b> comedies - romped with a gang of rowdy children. Inspirational author Helen Keller was accompanied by a dog described as a pit bull. Early advertisements for Buster Brown and Lewis jeans featured the the dogs. Today, despite the presence of APBTs who serve as therapy dogs, search-and-rescue, and narcotics- and explosive -detector dogs, they are viewed as outlaws, feared by all.

What changed and why?

Different breeds have held the title "most dangerous dog" throughout history. In the 19th century it was the Bloodhound. In the 1960s and 1970s, Doberman Pinschers and German Shepherds had their turn in the "dangerous dog" spotlight. The pit bull's turn came in the late 1980s, when <b>Sports Illustrated</b> plastered a photo of a snarling pit bull on it's July, 27, 1987, cover with the headline "Beware Of This Dog." The story inside was about pit bulls and the widespread problem of dogfighting.

Twenty years later, with a brief respite in the 90s when Rottweilers where labeled the dangerous dog du jour, the pit bull is still making head lines, still be associated with bad news.

"As the term and reputation gained popularity , another trend developed that increased the stigma's momentum," says Scot E. Dowd, Ph.D, of Shallowater, Texas, a United Kennel Club conformation judge of American Pit Bull Terriers. "The sect of society that is primarily concerned with the antisocial behavior began to take notice of the breed's new and increasingly negative sterotype." </i>

I hope JerseyCaptain, that my text above and citation ((written by hand from the magazine, word by word)) is enough facts for you.



You would be suprised on how many people have researched this breed, have spent time with this breed , have bred this very breed. While you can base your opinion ((biased or not it does not matter)) on facts....there are people who have been raised and have been introduced to these breeds and know them as more than just some breed that is "vicious".

And likewise, I am not -ever- going to say sorry to any one because of my opinion.




Hah, every one is utterly foolish and I'm not going to be an exception. -Shrugs-

I have read your whole posts, and the ones I disagree upon / can prove otherwise, I comment on. Does not mean I deny them. Does not mean I glance over them. I thank you for giving your opinion on what I do or do not do, however.



EXACTLY. Agree %100 percent. Pictures are getting Photoshopped, manipulated, and designed to make the person either feel hate or love towards some thing...which is why I really don't trust online pictures that much. Nor videos, for that matter. Too easy to be fooled anymore. O.o

And, as you have said, it can go both ways. What about breeders who (responsibly, although that should go without saying)) breed APBTs? Who have their APBTs champions of the conformation ring, possibly in weight pulling and agility? Obedience? And then there are many more dog sports you can excel in.

What about fosters who take rescued Pit Bulls into their home? More than once? APBTs that have been passed in temperment tests and allowed to be fostered / adopted out, like any other dog and mix?

I should think they know "their" breed very, very well. And they can say that these dogs can be wonderful companions, just like ANY breed dog can.



Again, good point. But WHAT? Besides destroying the whole breed because some morons went and screwed up the breed for their own amusement, or for guarding drugs and what not? What about the Rots and the Dobermans who are going through pretty much the same thing APBTs are?



D'you need more referenced source materials? I can get 'em. And if you want suggestions on where to get more information, I suggest Bully Breeds by David Harris. Which includes not only the APBT but other bully breeds as well. While we're at it, I suggest Tamar Geller with her novel, The Loved Dog. Not APBT related in any way, but a nice read. xD

Well, maybe if you'd stop referring to the American Pit Bull Terrier as a "pit bull", which is, in justice, a blanket term, then I wouldn't have to remind you what breed we're dealing with. ;]

I find maybe you should read your own signature.

Well, technically the term "pit bull" for the APBT is correct, since pit bull is a part of it's name. Just the same as you can refer to, say, the Old English Bull Dog as Bull Dog, as so on. ^_^

And I just noticed my tags did not work. O.o

Real afficionados of the breed understand that "pit bull" is a blatant and unclear term. I'm sorry if I am a bit of an annoying dog nut, but a respectable breeder can classify their dogs as APBTs, not a "pit bull", which is a blanket term for several breeds. And in showing, the dog is NOT referred to as a "Pit Bull", it is called the American Pit Bull Terrier. Just as they wouldn't call the American Staffordshire Terrier a Bull Terrier (though sometimes referred to as the Staffordshire Terrier, especially abroad), a correct namesake always has its' place in the showing community. Idk if you show with the CKC or what, but respectable dog shows, such as the UKC, do not anywhere on their site use the blanket term "Pit Bull". Even on the APBTs page, they are referred to as the APBT the entire time.

http://www.ukcdogs.com/WebSite.nsf/Bree ... ullTerrier

The reason I bitch about it so much is because it annoys the HELL out of me when the less dog-savvy people can sit there and point at my English Bulldog and call him a "pit bull". So, in layman's terms, I don't think the word pit bull should be used unless describing the bull-baiting group. ;P

And even then, people need to be aware of what a REAL APBT terrier is, not just anything with strong jaws.

THESE are the kind of people that make APBTs look like ******. APBT standard calls for dogs to weigh from 30-60, bitches from 30-50. These are monstrous APBTs who reach weights of over 100 lbs, and whose owners dress them up like killers in their spiked collars so they look bad *** and intimidating. And this is the reason I hatehatehate Gotti Lined APBTs, unless very carefully bred to reduce the strains of massive dogs.

http://pitpassionkennels.com/profile.html
http://www.newenglandgottiline.com/maxi ... males.html

And some good breeders, with reference to the word "pit bull" but always stating that it is an APBT that they are talking about. Gamy, lean, well muscled. Gotti-lined but cleaned to BS.

http://www.thebullyhouse.net/pitbullhistory.html
http://www.caragankennel.com/

I personally love Caragan Kennels. They keep the BS alive. ;]
And "Ignorance of our History" pretty much sums up your view on the American Pit Bull Terrier. All you see is the APBT as a weapon and monster, rather than having its perks. The breed WAS once a war hero, and also makes an excellent therapy dog, drug dog, and police companion, and if you'd like proof on that, I'd be more than happy to look it up for you.

Actually, I really don't find my views "skewed". Whereas you think that the APBT should be put out of existence due to irresponsible breeders, and insist that the breed has an irrereparable temperament, I see both sides. There are idiot wiggers who use their dogs as an extension of their more than likely small attributes, and there are people who are dedicated to the breed and know how to succesfully raise it to be a well-mannered member of society.

I'm sorry, but I just don't see how you get off calling my views skewed when you cannot see past your idealistic views on the discontinuation of the breed.