Animation Source Forums

If you don't help us, there isn't much we can do. But if the members had, topics like these wouldn't be created, because you lot would've made our job easier *sigh*

If that made any sense.

Now you have me confused, not so much by this post but also by the ones that came after it.
Now, could you clarify your position on why you actually oppose opennesses on the banning-front, because you have been sending mixed messages. Do you oppose openness because of:
a) matters of site security?
b) not wanting to embarrass banned members?
c) because you don't want members to see what mods do?
and why?
(combinations are possible)

As for counter arguments, here are mine:
to (a): these matters can be resolved if someone just puts some work into it, or some expertise. And we can't discredit the option before ample research has been conducted, obviously.
to (b): if someone is banned, all his previous posts become "deleted member"-posts, so it's not that hard to find out who gets banned. The 'embarrassment' thus already exists; why not ad some clarity to it too?
to (c): I believe in openness; secrecy is what Chinese government does. We are better than that, and the mods are too. I have ample faith in their integrity, and believe they have nothing to hide.

But you let your friends make life worse for everyone here? And then some are surprised because of the complaints... What honest friends would do would be to tell a moderator about it and get it fixed. And "half mods"?

Exactly. The moment you know you inevitably become part of it. Besides, you are making sure someone can break the rules.

Well well well, what do we have here? We don't know if you really did ban Yupik or not! Confusion!

I see nothing wrong with revealing details of the banned or at LEAST the names. Why don't you?

Most banned wouldn't think that way. Everyone has rights wether banned or not. Besides, what use would it be to you? If someone important is gone and you suspect they're banned, if the need for communication was bad enough, they'd contact you. Besides, you can ask. And the banned box gives away as much...

And if you mean this for the sake of the banned, why? Banning them is meant to put them at a disadvantage because they evidently broke the rules. Banning has nothing to do with convenience.

Ok, it seems like this has gotten way off track. Rants aren't supposed to be about hurling nit picky comments at each other. All of the bickering back and forth isn't helping this issue. Yes, mods are human. Yes, we are fallible in some cases. We mess up - not just by doing silly things like accidentally banning someone who doesn't need to be banned, but by slipping up sometimes. Yes, there should be fewer of these slip ups. But this kind of thing can't be expected to change over night, especially if not everyone knows what's going on and/or what needs to be changed. Yes, it is a good idea if we get together and discuss what needs to be improved and point out specific things to each other for us all to work on. I believe we all agree that Yupik's friends, being non-members of the site, can't do much harm nor would they even conceive of such an idea. Even if they were members, they still wouldn't be able access everything without actually having yupik's username, password, and mod password. Even so, allowing them to have the urls wasn't a good idea.



What Lux meant by this is that it would be kind of like an invasion of privacy for those members who have been banned. Let's say some member with the username RandomBaltoFan1 (*note* As far as I know this is not a real username, I made it up. It's a hypothetical member) gets banned because he/she was sending sexually harrassing private messages to RandomBaltoFan2 (*note* also fabricated). It would be a violation of his/her privacy to display the ban reason, ban date, ban length, and the user's IP address for everyone to see. Despite the fact that these members may have broken a rule, they are still also people like us and their rights deserve to be protected just as much as everyone else's. This is the other big reason we cannot show people the banning page.

Please, let's stop with the useless sniping at each other back and forth now. If you can't discuss this problem without sarcasm and irrationality, then don't make a suggestion. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, as is the way with cruelty in any form. Just because someone says something you don't like, it doesn't mean you have to egg them on by saying something they don't like. Doing that just causes people to get stuck in endless loops of arguments.

I've never gotten why everyone here can't just take care of theirselves?!
Why does everyone need a mod to "babysit" their wrongs?
Haven't you learned to take care of yourself and know right from wrong?
You probably wouldn't believe me but I go to a site called crissangel.com,its for all ages just like this one and suprisingly there is usually only one problem and its usually only once a year.
They dont even have mods for the chat because people are actually respectful!!!
Its not impossible,its just for some reason,I've never been able to tell why,this site has a majority of ignorant people who believe that this site is just for their balto/tlk liking.
They think they don't have to be nice,respectful,follow the rules for others because they find this site enertainment and don't reflect on how their actions make others feel.
I don't understand how two sites that both have much of the same set-up are complete oppisites....don't tell me its because on crissangel.com they have no mods because they do!
and they actually get to relax because people understand everyone should be respected for their opinion!
I've met 10 year olds there all the way to 35 year olds and we always have fun!
Wanna know where I've been hiding the last couple months? Thats it. Because somehow people are acknowledging of the rules and don't count on the mods to help them follow it. Its not just about criss angel,they have a other section just like here for film/animation,cartoons,opinions on stuff,whatever. I have read most of the topics posted and not once have I seen a flame war.
I'm not saying this other site is perfection or that this one should be,its impossible.Because they do have some problems,but way less than here.
I am just using that site as comparison.
Yes,I read this topic and the comments however I don't think the mods need to improve.
People's attitude and views need to be adjusted,nice,and respected.
Now that doesn't mean agree with everyone,but it sure means to respect an opinion thats different from yours.
Save the mods headaches and act civilized.
Is that hard?
NO IT ISN'T.
i could go on and on on how to improve this site,but im pretty sure this sums it up
"you wanna improve things? start with yourself,move on to the other members,and if it all comes crashing then by all means ask the mods to change thier ways."
I'm done. If you didn't get what I meant by all this its simple.

Don't ask the mods to change if you have broken rules here and continue to do so,you are in NO place to,and we all just need to work on our attitudes here,rather than blaming the mods for our terrible behaviors. k?
Now im done for sure.

Okay, good point. I have to admit I also thought about this one before I suggested more publicity. At any length, releasing the IP would certainly be going a bit too far. As for all the rest, I wouldn't be against seeking some kind of balance between publicity and privacy.
But although it would be an infringement on the privacy, publicity also holds some positive aspects for potential banned:
- publicity protects anyone from arbitrary bans. If a ban has to be publicized, it becomes hard(er) for mods to ban someone for the wrong reasons. I'm not saying mods do, and neither am I contesting that there already exists a lot of internal control, but it is an extra protection.
- publicity would make it clear for other members what is exactly expected of them. After all, "not sexually harassing private messages" isn't in the rules (not that any sane person would consider it, of course, but nullum crimen, nulla poena sine lege).
Of course, this could be solved if the mysterious formula's for banning are made public. I mean, why not? Why don't we just do that, for starters. Anything past that point, that'll be for a latter discussion. And if the only counter argument would be possible complaining about the publicized rules, just consider that there is just as much outcry about the secrecy.

What the hell.

I never said anyone had to release the REASON or IP, the thought of releasing the IP is just utterly insane and stupid, just a NAME and BAN TIME so people in their RPs, people they work with on other things etc etc at least KNOW when a team/RP member is banned. Otherwise the only way we know is if a mod decides to reveal that information and by the sounds of it they won't even do that, so we have a missing member for several days or weeks, or months even.