Animation Source Forums

I bother to make a reply. Here goes:

Anthro characters do have a sense of moral, and they do have a personality that defines their actions. These anthros will still have their breed/specie's instincts even though they have morals, eg a wolf will still kill a rabbit for food, or maybe even another to defend their place. You can't just expect an anthro character to have full morals that they'll stick to until the end, these will change, a character may change from being fairly docile to snapping a lot due to experience and events that have occured. Some may lash out because it's all that they know.

But this is fanfiction, as well, keep in mind, so I don't think it's going to really change or make a drastic difference. Just because anthros have a sense of right and wrong doesn't mean they're going to feel guilty for their wrongs.

You make a good point on the surface, but you don't take into account neccessity. Yes, it is neccessary for the wolf to kill the rabbit in order to live. And yes, it is natural for wolves to fight over territiory. I have never objected to these things. My objection in this area concerns sexual immorality, as shown in the all-too numerous fanfics where Balto and/or Jenna cheat on one another. That sort of action is in no way vital to survival.
Also, you seem to have overlooked the past discussions: it has already been made plain that any massive change in character must have an explaination in order to make sense. Anything less is just sloppy writing. However, I have rarely found a story in which out-of-character behavior had even the most minutely sane explanation.

I also regret to inform you that it is not to my fault that you haven't read the stated example. Just because you have no knowledge of the subject does not make it any less true to its point, which I've stated clearly so even those who hadn't read it can understand the basis meaning of it. Secondly, his mind was not affected by the metamorphosis. The physical alteration did nothing to change his subconcious being, and you will see for half of the book he is still himself. His personality changes as the book goes on, and even during the beginning he keeps his human nature alive until approaching the climax of the story.


True, I would be offended would someone take one of my stories and deliberately twist it up without my consent, and I'm certain any creator of a piece of literature or art would. But your argument is based upon the grounds that someone is taking your character, whether by permission or not, and altering them without your permission. However, the situation is vastly different with Balto Source. Universal Studios knows we exist, knows that we are a Balto fan-site, and undoubtedly has a good idea of what we put onto this site; we've even received an e-mail from a staff member of Universal when we inquired about Balto, encouraging the site! To say that it's unjust to the creator's original designs isn't a thorough arguement, because if they had any issue with us doing what we are doing, altering the character's personalities, then legal action would've been taken against us long ago.


The only possible defense I can offer this point at this junction is that morally, nobody is perfect. It's a well-known and accepted fact that people make mistakes and misjudgments, some small and some immense. This also goes back to Hrry's comment of differentiating views on morality. What's moral to you may not be to me, and so on and so forth. There can't be one direct way of thinking, and there never will be.


Here is a very interesting subject, on which I would like to touch on concerning history. When the Constitution was written, and you are correct on this, it was founded based on the belief of moral absolutes. But also the Constitution was written on men's rights, not women's. It was also for citizens, not the current slaves at that time. The views of the Constitution back in 1776 and for some time after that were very broad. As time went on, things came into a more clear perspective and most of the Constitution was altered or considered null, an example being the Amendment that allows any race to vote and the Amendment to allow women to vote. By today, we've already destroyed much of what the Constitution originally stood for, and those moral absolutes are now dead to all, save for a few. And to say morality is no more flexible than math is also a fallacy. Mathematics has one definite way to perform, and if performed wrong, then it gives you the wrong results. Morality, on the other hand, is based upon what you have been taught, therefore there is no definite way for things to be. You have been taught this is wrong, I have been taught this is wrong, but others might not believe that, and I guarantee there are people in the world who would fit my example. And believe it or not, it does change right from wrong, because right and wrong is perspective. Like you say this is wrong to alter these characters and make them do these things, I would argue it is right, because we are exploiting our human nature to be inquisitive and creative, and we both know that neither of us is going to back down from defending our side of the debate.


This debate, Dragon Tamer, has already been fought, and it has also already ended on the decision of the moderators. We both know that neither side came to a conclusive victory over the other, and with Balto Source being as diverse in perspective and opinion as it is, there never will be an end. So I would just like to ask you one question, Dragon Tamer: what are you hoping to achieve in continuously bringing up these debates?

Well, for some reason I was left with the conclusion that his mind was somehow altered by the change. Even if it wasn't, I assume the story involved some explanation for his changed behavior.


Well, I guess the most realistic of my hopes is that people who are still on the fence about this can read, see the reason of my arguments, and learn from them. Then, even if they still bother to write about such things (the prevention of which is my primary goal), at least their writing won't be as clumsy as most such stories I've read.

Oh, so you are risking what others want in order to get what you want? You are like Steele.

Balto5670 is right, Dragon Tamer. You've already brought this sort of subject up in two previous topics, both of which are now locked. It seems to me that you are intent on bringing this up continually under different topic names.
If you are concerned over the rule change, PM steet.
If you want writers to stop writing "sloppy" stories, well... Good luck with that. Although I agree that some writers seem to just do "drive-by" stories (writing down whatever they think of without regard to grammer, spelling or common sense), I'm convinced that everyone writes differently, and everyone has to start somewhere.



It happens, DT. Writers can be sloppy sometimes.
Not everyone can match up to your standards, and they don't have to either. You should simply not read their stories, if they bother you so much.
If you want change, why not comment in their galleries (nicely) about why they should explain any odd behavior?

I'll let this go for a little while, but already it seems to be going in circles. No one's really being convinced one way or anthor; it's just arguing. If this gets any worse, I may have to lock this one, too.


-LWf

Thank you, Stone Paw. Lone Wolf, with all respect to you as a mod (and I hope as a friend) I must maintain that this topic is in no way deserving of blocking. It is a calm, civilized discussion of a very key matter in writing. As I said before, it is my hope that this can be of help to budding writers on this site. There has been no flaming, no insults, and nothing that is against the rules anymore than what is in my own fanfics, the content of which you yourself personally approved beforehand. Please allow us to carry on this discussion, if for no other reason than that you have been as kind to conversations that did not match up to this one on any level. Are you going to lock my topic now that I actually have some people agreeing with me? I sincerely hope this is not the case.

Well, I definitely understand your point, Stone Paw. It is accepted by the vast majority that "making dramatic, out-of-character changes without explanation is a flaw."
Now that we've established this, what are we doing about it?
I think this is why I said what I said. I saw plenty of discussion of the problem, but not many attempts at remedying it.

Certainly, I'll talk to writers I see with this kind of story, but since writing characters "out of character" is not forbidden in the rules I feel I have no grounds for deactivating any fanfics of the sort. In addition, I believe it's unfair to the writers, who may be writing their first or second fic and haven't been critiqued before.
Yes, I will make suggestions, but I'll let the fics onto the site for the most part.
For this reason, I think the best solution would be to drop a comment in the writers' section. Something like:

Hey, I read your fic *insert title here* and it's not bad, but *character* seemed a bit odd, and I think it would make more sense if you explained his/her actions/feelings.

Just my suggestion.




Forgive my misjudgment, Dragon Tamer. I must not have read the previous posts carefully enough. You are right in that nothing here breaks the rules, and thus, I retract my "lock" warning.
However, perhaps you should retitle your topic, as to attract the "budding writers" who ought to be your audience. No sarcasm meant. People may be passing up this topic because they want to avoid a debate.
Also, offering suggestions to said writers would probably help as well.



I am insulted on every level.

I am not like people who would try to silence any and all opposition to their views, despite whatever you may think of me. I believe that everyone deserves an equal chance to speak.
And I am courteous and kind out of what you might call professionalism (I don't know what to call it): As I said, I feel that everyone deserves an chance to speak, so I try to calmly and kindly explain what I feel is wrong with the topic and make suggestions rather than demands, despite how ridiculous or backwards I may think it is.
I'm trying hard to keep it that way.

And yes, Dragon Tamer, I will show the same respect to this topic as the one in question.
However, I feel I should remind you that said topic was not in violation of the rules as you so firmly believe. The writer had as much right to question his fic's removal as you did to question the rule change. There's your equal respect.

After a comment like that, I don't know, DT...

Let me just say that there were times when even Commisioner Gordon didn't trust Batman.

Even so, my previous statement stands: I am not locking your topic.

-LWf

Alright, so I wasn't thinking so straight yesterday, it was post-medication. However, these things just happen, like in humans, you see it all the time. You're beating a dead horse here.

Thanks for the tip, Lone Wolf. A title change does sound like a good idea, but I'm not sure what to change it to. Any suggestions?

Well, that fits, but I'm not sure it would work very well as a draw for newbies. Maybe a writing tutorial would work, since all the ones I've seen so far deal with imagery and sentence structure. Ethics and character development seem to be uncharted territory around here.

Actually, a lot of major colleges have ethics courses. Still, you make a good point. Of course, as some of the previous posts,will show, some members on this site don't value right and wrong at all.