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 Post subject: Re: Hairball stalking kids...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 4:22 am 
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Alpine wrote:
Ehhhh...it works moderatly. If the grass were dead and brown, you were facing the sun or just unattentive, it would work alot better.

Actually, the fact that the grass is green makes it interesting. I chose the position to get his colouration in context with the stones... of course, I could have taken it with more grass, so that you'd see almost nothing of him. What this photo intends to show you, that's how nature cheats your eyes - imagine to walk by at the fence there... mostlikely you wouldn't even figure out that you're being watched by a predator that's "bigger" than you.

Alpine wrote:
On a different note, sounds like you've got a pretty cool job.

It's not exactly a "job" for me. I do it voluntarily, just like my efforts in conservation of wild animals.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 11:51 am 
Kovu wrote:
Well, I don't own him. Even if I'd "own" him - I think it's something nobody should think or say... you can't "own" a living being... parents also don't "own" a kid. We're simply friends, and it was his free choice to spend that much time with me.


I didn't really mean "own" one.. XD I just think it would be cool, or even a normal house-cat that had markings like a tiger, I just think their pretty, and that it would make a good guard for my house. XD

Kovu wrote:
Of course - tigers are dangerous animals. But they're very intelligent as well. This means that they accept rules and make rules, by which a human and a tiger can live together. It's important that you understand their will, desires and language if you want to work with them... and... the most important is - that you have a deep friendship with them. Pantherines naturally fear mankind, and only a deep trust in each other allows us to be together without conflict. Technically, you can imagine a 3m long and 200kg weighing "domestic cat"... they have about the same longing for love, like to cuddle, communicate and play with you. If you've ever tried to catch wild or feral cats, you know how severely they "defend their life" against your will... or... I also believe that almost anyone who has a domestic cat already got bitten or scratched by her... it's kind of the same with big cats - just in their dimensions. What's truely more dangerous in them than in domestic cats, that's their size and power.


I never actually new any of that, & I was always afraid tigers. I guess that gives me a better understanding, thanks. The ones that I have seen at the Zoo were nothing close to 3metres long, maybe 1, or one and a half at the most.

How long do tigers usually live for? And how much space/room do they need? What do you guys feed them?



Kovu wrote:
However... what truely fascinates me about them, that's their mental capability. They perfectly understand most of what you tell them and comment it with their typical moaning... they are perfectly aware what powers they have, and how fragile other animals/humans are... so that they play carefully with beings they consider being their friends. I believe - there's nothing that can go deeper than the friendship with a Pantherine - as such a relationship is based on enormous cohesive powers and serious matters. My mentor's life once got even defended by a lioness, his favored cat, against 2 siberian tigers that wanted to tackle him.


I noticed that, about them being careful, but I also watched this TV show that showed a bunch of tiger attacks, I wouldn't blame them for attacking the people, though, they were pretty mean to them, and I'm sure a human wouldn't like it if they were hit with one of those whips multiple times. :shock: I wouldnt.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 1:04 pm 
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Chasity wrote:
The ones that I have seen at the Zoo were nothing close to 3metres long, maybe 1, or one and a half at the most.

That measurement is done with the tail and would perfectly fit a siberian tiger ;) . Siberian tigers "can" grow to enormous dimensions. For example - there are weight records of wild males that had more than 300 kg (A regular weight for siberians would still be around 200 kg).

Chasity wrote:
How long do tigers usually live for?

In the wild not much longer than domestic cats. Between 15 and 18 years. In captivity it's usually between 20 and 25 - but with excellent treatment and occupation (such as in our park) it may be up to 30 years. However - that requires that the cat hasn't been tortured or mistreated too much, before she gets to us.

Chasity wrote:
And how much space/room do they need?

Actually, in captivity we'll never be able to offer them the territories they deserve. In the wild they occupy territories of between 25 and 400 km2, always depending on where they live. Plus - unless they have young, wild tigers live a solitary life. Though - their behavioral pattern shifts when they're in captivity (as they don't need to hunt their food anymore) - they learn to like communities and to share their room with others, forming a social structure... which makes it possible keep them in the same habitat.

However - "space" is something that's always overrated by people... well, let's put it this way: the more room they have, the better it is. But what's essential in their life - that's occupation. In captivity they can't and don't need to hunt anymore - which results in boredom... and you can imagine that this can't really make them happy. Our practice is to occupy them, with 3 elements: "sports", changement of habitats and training for shows. The last one is only for those cats who like to do these shows... of course... it's a matter of talent, interest and not having fear from it - and no cats should be forced to do something they don't like.

Chasity wrote:
What do you guys feed them?

12 kg meat per day... some great steaks :P an entire cow for all of them each day ;)

Chasity wrote:
I noticed that, about them being careful, but I also watched this TV show that showed a bunch of tiger attacks, I wouldn't blame them for attacking the people, though, they were pretty mean to them, and I'm sure a human wouldn't like it if they were hit with one of those whips multiple times. :shock: I wouldnt.

Tigers never are "mean". They only make use of their weapons, if they're forced to defend themselves or to hunt for survival. But, what they're famous for, that's "Man-Eating". In connection to my studies on pantherines (which is why I'm finally working in the park now) I've written a nice article about that phenomenon: Man-Eating Behavior Among Big Cats

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 Post subject: Re: Hairball stalking kids...
PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 3:52 pm 
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Kovu wrote:
Actually, the fact that the grass is green makes it interesting. I chose the position to get his colouration in context with the stones... of course, I could have taken it with more grass, so that you'd see almost nothing of him. What this photo intends to show you, that's how nature cheats your eyes - imagine to walk by at the fence there... mostlikely you wouldn't even figure out that you're being watched by a predator that's "bigger" than you.


Eh, I dunno, I'm not really seeing the camo effect in the end...

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 1:27 pm 
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What kind of zoo were you working for? It sounds like something pretty "private" to me... wouldn't organisations like animal control have to set an end to the guy's practices?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 2:50 pm 
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wolfgurly666 wrote:
we both came down from Germany together he and his wife....

You are German, or just have your roots there? Then why don't we talk in German? :P Well, it's kind of disturbing to hear that such a relationship had to break up.

wolfgurly666 wrote:
he was attacked by one of the lions....he was shooting a comercial which consisted of him having the lion (Sunny) jump at him...that wasn't the problem...after shooting the comercial...on his way out after the camera man had left the incloser....George stumbled and feel and that is when sunny grabbed him by the throat and drug him back to the din area....he let him go thankfully....and he lived....so i don't actually know if that might have something to do with what happend or not....seems to me like it could have played a big roll in it......

Outch... a throat-bite of a pantherine is never healthy. Although... I've never heard of animal trainers that punished their cats for such an accident, that would really be odd... like the guy wouldn't be the person everyone would expect him to be.

wolfgurly666 wrote:
him doing the comercial like that or getting sunny to leap at him was a BAD idea anyway....i told him not to do it but..... :roll: what can i do.... i meen an adult male lion.....you know what i mean i am quite sure kovu... :)

It depends on how it is done. If such a sequence is trained properly, it shouldn't be a problem. Though, I'm not a friend of "sensation seeking" shows. We prefer to show people what great capabilities the cats have, without provoking any dangerous situations. It's better for everyone - the cat and the trainer... and makes sure that the cats enjoy to do it too.

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