Animation Source Forums

Mmm, sorry, I'll reopen it because you hadn't my words about this.



Well, maybe I was a bit egoistical when I added it, but the reason I added the banned box was to prevent the banned people from contacting me and spamming my PM and email box. Especially, when I didn't ban them and I had no idea why they were banned. So, the solution seemed to be to keep banned people sending messages in only one place, that mods could check in case there are innocent people. And, so far, from my point of view, it worked very well : I hadn't got any complain from any banned person since I added it.

Maybe I should have insisted on the fact that, of course, the banned people won't be "easy to live", after all there was a reason they were banned. So the mods should just not pay attention to the insults and other things like that, in fact they shouldn't even answer to this type of messages.

Do you think the solution would be to remove it? Well, this would be very dangerous : innoncent people could get banned, and have no way to recover this situation. Now, I would be glad to improve this, but if anyone has an idea...


But this was the most important, tell what should be done.
You may not like this, but I think it's too easy to just leave to escape the problems. Especially when it comes to mods...

As some people said, the problem come more from the members than the site itself. Well, I can say that it's very difficult when there are so many young people here (we all know how much teenagers can be difficult to be taken care of...) I still keep thinking there can be ways to prevent this.
But what if I closed all shout boxes on the site? Would it be a good solution? Surely it would prevent all "flaming wars", but I'm not sure that cutting the site like that would be so much appreciated.

What I need is ideas. People get focused on the problems and don't even think about how to solve them.
I know this will be just impossible to prevent little wars happening here and then. I know this because most sites I know where there are so many kids (even very popular sites), there are similar situations.

What else must I say? Yes, of course, you're free to leave, I'm not forcing anyone to stay. You'll also be free to come back whenever you want.
I must say I'm getting used to this, and this is pretty normal that members leave a site after being on it for so long. It's not as if the site was started yesturday...

People come, people leave, that's the way it works. But the site remains the same.

Oh yes, I forgot something : I WONT CLOSE THE SITE ANYTIME SOON. The first objective of the site is to be a Balto ressource site. Whether there are 10, 100 or 1000 members on it, this won't change anything.

It would really help if people started saying what's wrong...I suppose that if all of you don't explain, this means with have a problem with some members in particular?

Well, while I'm disappointed that you three are giving up the ship like this (especially, Kari, after you started that entertaining video series), I certainly can understand the frustration over fights making it NOT fun here.

There are a select handful of bullies who make this place really irritating at times...and not all of them are in high school. Some of them are college-aged. And I've held my tongue, because of the risk of being banned simply for daring to speak openly. But it makes me SICK.

Despite being bullied myself (on several occasions and, EACH TIME, unjustly), I stayed and fought the good fight. And I made positive contributions to this site that have resonated across the membership. People here, or at least the majority of them, see me as a positive contributor and a generally friendly and sociable (and HONEST) person, and know full-well that I am an adult...not a kid (and not an adult pretending to be a kid for whatever reason).

I personally don't like running away...I think it is admitting failure, and showing weakness. You each have a lot of good to offer this site and its members, and have done a lot so far. To turn and run like this is, frankly, asinine.

The good ones continue to go...and the bullies, troublemakers, and hangers-on stay. *SIGH* It's hard to see why I ever signed up for a membership in the first place. This idiotic pre-teen/teen/college melodrama makes my stomach churn. And the bullying and cajoling (and the throwing around of ego and holier-than-thou attitudes by people who have no place doing so, by reason of age or merit), which is not TRULY dealt with here, with any degree of finality (and, on the rare occasions those bullies ARE banned, they end up UNbanned either the same day, or the very next). Given that, I guess I can see why people are tiring of things here.

I just wish it didn't have to come to this. The bullies and troublemakers should be run out...NOT the good people. And the bullies and troublemakers are right now having a good laugh about all this, knowing full well that this is another victory for them.

I hardly knew you guys, but I wish you best of luck to where evere you may go. I hate to see this happen, when there's also so many others leaving nowdays. Well, good bye, I hope that you may at least check this site now and again.
-Love from Whitewolf

I appreciate that you agree with most of what I said (because what I said is not solely based upon personal frustration, but upon impartial observation of the trials and tribulations of other good members).

Maybe the statements you bolded ARE a matter of point of view. Still, I have few detractors here (and most of us know who they are), and plenty of friends. And that has been because I am a good and friendly person, and I share freely, without any expectation of reward or stroking of my ego. The evidence of it is in print on this site...so it's not entirely just point of view. But this is not about ME, so let's keep it on track, shall we? I was speaking mostly generally, about general malaise and frustration of good people faced by bullies here. I only used myself as a brief example to illustrate my point. I wasn't posting a self-pitious post.

However, I am not going to be more specific about individuals. You know that would bring on a flame war. And we also know that, upon reading this, certain members will think I'm referring to them. How they REACT to that information will determine whether or not there's a flame war. I protected the privacy of those people by not mentioning who they were. Not out of respect to them (because I DESPISE bullies and how effectively they get away with whatever they get away with here), but out of respect to everyone else. Nope. I won't name names.

Steet, I'd like to offer some observations on what you said, and take you up on offering SOLUTIONS, rather than whining and quitting, like so many have. You are the web master of course, so you are free to ignore these...it's your site.

SHOUTBOXES
I agree that it would be a mistake to close the banned shoutbox...I was a victim of the IP-switch thing mentioned in the Suggestions board. No mod, that I ever discovered, had banned me (there was no reason to anyway), but I also never got a PM to let me know. And four mods (including Kari, incidentally) helped me a great deal to correct that (Danman, Dingo, Black Shimmer and Kari). In the end, it all worked out.

The regular shoutbox is a good place, and I haven't seen very many fights there. The mods do a fair job at controlling that. No...it's in the FORUMS that the fights mostly happen. Because one person doesn't like what another said, and then shoots THEIR mouth off (and, sad to say, it's often the older members...in terms of their membership length, not their age...who shoot their mouths off and create the fights...especially a select few of the more hot-tempered and self-important ones...with all due respect, you need to realize this, Steet!).

I don't know about the role-play shoutbox, as I am never there. But if we have role-play in the forums, why do we need a role-play shoutbox? I know some people love it, and wouldn't want to see it go, but from where I'm standing, it's superfluous.

MODS
I understand that most of the members are pre-teens and teenagers, but I personally think it's begging for trouble to allow kids to be moderators. With but few exceptions, they are just incapable of treating conflicts impartially. I KNOW there are some mods who will ban because they sided with one person, and other mods who will UNban for the same reason, or just because someone who's banned is their friend.

And yet, there are other teen mods who ban or unban (or adjudicate topics) because they FIRST judge the situation based on the FACTS. Of course, those mods are often accused of partiality themselves, and they DON'T deserve it. Still, there are a few global mods who's presence is NEVER seen on the forums. Where are these people? Where are their posts? What are they doing being mods if they never post, or never demonstrate any signs of their presence?

And still, there are a couple of mods who are a little TOO heavy-handed with their locking of topics, deleting posts, and coming down on members. They are abusing their duties. Of course, it's admittedly a fine line to walk. But when you have some mods who are too heavy-handed, others who are never around, and still others who are afraid TO do their duties, then it's time to re-think the global mod positions, no? If you want, I can PM you my thoughts on particulars in this case. But I won't delineate them here. No reason to heat things up. It would solve nothing.

There ARE adults on this site. And older college students. Personally, I think they have more life experience (well, THAT'S a fact) and more capacity for logic and impartiality than most pre-teens or teenagers. And they're less likely to take sides and act on their duties based simply upon friendships. I have only seen a very few select exceptions, in the case of kids being GOOD and wise mods. The rest play friendships, or act on their emotional impulses and ego. And that stinks.

IN CLOSING
In response to what some others here have said, I see nothing whatsoever wrong with the fact that the membership has grown in the last year or so, and I DON'T see that as being an cause of the site going "down hill". I am one of those who joined in the last year. I don't get why some people are fussing about that, and blaming that for the reason that the quality of the site is falling off. That's baloney. Those older members need to come to terms with it, and stop whining about "the good old days". Things change. And, in any large group like this, it is often the "oldest" members who are the most resistant to change. People can't have their cake and eat it too...either they want to keep this a small, exclusive club, or they want to see it (and Balto) become more popular. With popularity comes growth and change. And a natural diversification. And the exclusive little club needs to face up to it and evolve, or move on and make room.

In reality, the quality of the site is falling off for a few reasons that MUST be said (and dealt with):

1. Those who are resistant to change, who have been bullying and cajoling others who post in the forums...especially when those others say something that THEY don't like...or cannot deal with. Those bullies NEED to be dealt with more harshly than they have been. No more treating them with "kid gloves". If they have to be banned (no matter WHO they are, and no matter WHAT they've done for the site before...be it fan art, fan fiction, fan videos, or anything ELSE), then so be it, and they should REMAIN BANNED for more than just a few minutes to a day. If they have to be taken down a few notches, then so be it. They deserve the same treatment everyone else gets...NOT preferential treatment.

2. Mods who simply don't do their jobs, do them poorly, or do them with too heavy a hand. Including some of the global mods. It's time for a house-cleaning, and a change. And I still say that having mods who are all kids is begging for the kind of trouble we've seen. With but a couple of exceptions, they simply are ill-suited to handle such a job effectively.

3. No "rant" board. As I have said before, most sites which have forums have a rant board. Of course, they are still moderated, and flaming isn't allowed (I've seen several instances of successful rant boards before), but they are a necessity. There is a lot of pent-up stress and unresolved issues among members. There NEEDS to be a place for that, so long as flaming and the kind of bullying (and gang bullying, in some cases) we've seen here is prevented.

There's probably more I could think of, but this should do for now. I hope you can see the motivation and logic behind these statements, and not view this as flaming or simple ranting. Feel free to reply, and if you want me to PM you on the things I mentioned, if you will take the information I offer to you in good faith, confidence and with an open mind, then I will gladly do so.

I agree with this part.

There are a lots of Global mods which aren't doing correctly their jobs,which people thinks that they were a wrong choosing.(like they wren't good for become-ing Mod)..I won't name those..but they know themseves who they are.

I have highschool too,and problems(like I have to move from this high...) but I have strengh and continue my job for what I was chosen....

There was one time when Togo,didn't properly lock a topic,and I had to say,hey Togo,I know I'm not a Mod,but you need to lock this properly,and his reply was,Oops.

I couldn't read that..it should be more like

There was one time when Togo didn't properly lock a topic, and I had to say 'Hey Togo, I know I'm not a mod, but you need to lock this properly,' and his reply was 'Oops.'

and I'm sorry that all of these members are leaving, but I too wish that the site was the same as it was when I first came here...I wont say much here because I have already talked to them about them leaving. Bye, though..

I leave with these last words...

You will realize what needs to be done. I plan to tell you. But not yet, I am sorting out. Why not leave it to the people?

Thats exactly what America did. We left it to the people. Now, I do so.

I will return in time... Steet, expect an email. Not yet, but you will get one from me.

I bid you all Ado. And I will be back. I did not leave, I am sorting out thoughts. Do not call me a coward or tell me I am trying to find the easy way out. Im not.

Ado my friends...


--Jack

Ok for all this Baltosepalla, this should help.
Although, I won't be here this week end so I won't be able to do much.
I think a "rant" board could be a good idea. At least, I'll try and see if it's better or not with it. But, what is the exact definition of "rant"? I think I see what you means, but...


It's not the same thing, chat is live (direct) conversation while forums are "asynchronous" (indirect) conversations.

Among what you said, the biggest problem is that I need names. For example, I don't know who you're referring to when you think of adults serious members who aren't already mods. So I would appreciate that you PM me by precising that. The mods can do the same as well.