what was up with steele?

Jake Razor · **Posted:** Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:56 pm

Maximum Ride wrote:

Well i can see that Dragon Tamer but Steele wasn't a good dog because of the way he treated other dogs.

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balto 2.jpg

He can be evil and still be smart. Just see my latest fanfic, "Road Rovers: Appearances" for a case in point.

Maximum Ride · **Posted:** Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:04 pm

I know that but still. Dragon Tamer

Idy · **Posted:** Sat Jan 17, 2009 3:28 pm

Dragon Tamer wrote:

Iditarod wrote:

Dragon Tamer wrote:

That last part doesn't quite fit, because if he had been really trying to please Jenna he would have tried to save Rosie somehow. Of course, since his interests were self-focused, that made it easy for him to write Rosie, or any of the kids for that matter, off his list of concerns.

Very true. That being said, it really didn't make sense for Steele to expect Jenna to love him when he obviously didn't care one whit about Rosie, whom Jenna loved very much. But hey, if villains were smart they'd actually win sometimes, right?

Oh, some villains can be very smart. In the Redwall books, for example, Cluny was a very sharp tactician. In the end, he lost to Matthias not because Matthias was a better fighter, but because the mouse was fighitng for the right (and having a legendary sword probably helped, even if it wasn't magic or anything like that).

Yes, true, but I meant that Steele wasn't smart in the ways of love and compassion for others. Even if the villain in the story is smart (which, as you have pointed out, is sometimes true), he often doesn't understand why the protagonist is doing what he is doing. That in itself enables the protagonist to have the upper hand. And that is exactly what happened in Balto.

Maximum Ride · **Posted:** Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:26 pm

true but he was still stupid.

Gold Wolf · **Posted:** Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:38 pm

No,Steele was an evil,and cunning villain,in other words,he was very clever,but not experienced.

Jake Razor · **Posted:** Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:27 pm

Iditarod wrote:

Yes, true, but I meant that Steele wasn't smart in the ways of love and compassion for others. Even if the villain in the story is smart (which, as you have pointed out, is sometimes true), he often doesn't understand why the protagonist is doing what he is doing. That in itself enables the protagonist to have the upper hand. And that is exactly what happened in Balto.

Love and compassion are not intelligence so much as virtue. Intelligence can with equal ease be used for good or evil. In fact, it may often be more of a challenge to use it for good (for example, does it take more intelligence to break something or to fix it?). But virtue, such as genuine, self-sacrificing love, is not nearly as easily turned to malicious purposes, if at all. C.S. Lewis noted this in the Screwtape Letters by indicating that every demon out there, right down to "Our Father Below" himself, was baffled by the notion of how love (specifically agape love, to use the Greek), could possibly work, sure that if they could just figure out this crucial element to "the Enemy's scheme," they could assure their own victory over their foe (namely, God). I'm not sure I agree that it goes quite so far as that, but you see the analogy. Raw intelligence and genuine love exist on two planes so diametrically different that trying to compare them is, more often than not at least, just plain silly.

Maximum Ride · **Posted:** Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:06 pm

but steele ie stupid because he was trying to get jenna to love him but jenna loved and still does love Balto. you see it the saying you try to get what you can't have.

Jake Razor · **Posted:** Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:51 pm

Maximum Ride wrote:

but steele ie stupid because he was trying to get jenna to love him but jenna loved and still does love Balto. you see it the saying you try to get what you can't have.

In that regard, yes, he is thick. I forgot to account for the fact that there are many kinds of intelligence, and was focusing myself chiefly on tactical intelligence. But you're right. Socially, Steele was an idiot. But then, his mindset is a familiar one; my Mom even has a catchphrase for people like Steele. "I've made up my mind, don't confuse me with the facts."

Idy · **Posted:** Mon Jan 19, 2009 5:02 pm

Dragon Tamer wrote:

Maximum Ride wrote:

but steele ie stupid because he was trying to get jenna to love him but jenna loved and still does love Balto. you see it the saying you try to get what you can't have.

In that regard, yes, he is thick. I forgot to account for the fact that there are many kinds of intelligence, and was focusing myself chiefly on tactical intelligence. But you're right. Socially, Steele was an idiot. But then, his mindset is a familiar one; my Mom even has a catchphrase for people like Steele. "I've made up my mind, don't confuse me with the facts."

That's exactly the kind of intelligence I was talking about. Of course Steele was not mentally challenged - that would've made Balto's job a snap. As you put it; "tactically", Steele was very intelligent (not to be confused with "smart", how much you actually know, opposed to how much you are capable of learning). Socially, however...he just didn't seem to realize what was appropriate and acceptable in a relationship and what was not - which, I suppose, would count as good virtue.

Maximum Ride · **Posted:** Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:32 pm

you have a point iditarod and dragon tamer

Jake Razor · **Posted:** Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:46 pm

Togo wrote:

Dragon Tamer wrote:

In that regard, yes, he is thick. I forgot to account for the fact that there are many kinds of intelligence, and was focusing myself chiefly on tactical intelligence. But you're right. Socially, Steele was an idiot. But then, his mindset is a familiar one; my Mom even has a catchphrase for people like Steele. "I've made up my mind, don't confuse me with the facts."

Good point. But it is also true that Steele was very popular and at times loved at the beginning of the movie, so maybe not a complete idiot.

Oh, a lot of people are drawn to stupidity. Just look at how popular the Simpsons are. They sure as heck aren't modeling deep philosophy.

Maximum Ride · **Posted:** Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:14 pm

no there not are they Dragon tamer, Yay he was loved and respected at one time or another.

Jake Razor · **Posted:** Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:47 pm

Maximum Ride wrote:

no there not are they Dragon tamer, Yay he was loved and respected at one time or another.

Too bad he didn't deserve one ounce of it.

Maximum Ride · **Posted:** Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:00 pm

true he didn't.

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what was up with steele?