JerseyCaptain wrote:
Brown Wolf, you may have learned by now that no moderator or staffer is going to get respect by having it forced onto them. That is counterproductive. Sure, people have said before that this site is not a democracy. And it isn't. Neither is it a communist or fascist state. If you (and I mean that generally, not about you specifically) cannot gain respect by your actions, words and your ability to moderate with fairness and impartiality, then you are not deserving of respect or the position you hold. Period. And you will not get it by holding a "respect my authoritah!" mentality, and a fear of permanent banning, over the membership's collective heads, or those of individuals. Or, as Rotramel suggests in his response to my first post, by "no longer being at the beck and call" of the membership. NO ONE expects the mods to be at their "beck and call". But they ARE here to serve the membership overall in a very general way. Leaders lead best by serving...not lording over those whom they lead. No one expects any mod to wait on any member hand and foot. They DO, however, expect (and have every RIGHT to expect) the mods to attend to their concerns in a timely way, to be present to do their jobs on an at least regular basis (rather than just a "when I get around to it...ho hum" mindset), and to learn to face up to honest, forthright criticism and react to it accordingly...maturely...CIVILLY.
Yes, I do know that. No one gets respect by force, that’s true. Sites should be free communities right? But even the freest community has to have rules and one of those rules should be respect for all members, whether they’re mods or not. Anyway, JC, if you think that myself or any other mod cannot gain respect by our actions or words or our ability to moderate with fairness and all that that we don’t deserve our positions?
Who are you to judge us on how we do our jobs?
Yes, there are some mods who have a tendency to let their attitudes off site get in the way of their jobs, but that does not mean we are incapable of it. No, we are not asking for people to bow down to us, not at all. And banning them would not help unless a rule here and there is broken. We just wanna be treated as any other member of the site and be allowed to our jobs without the criticism, even the heavy parts. Some criticism can hurt a person deeply. Who’s fault is that anyway? Who is anyone here to hurt another because of a probable misunderstanding.
And, you’re wrong when no one expects the mods to be at beck and call. There are some members who don’t use the ‘Report to mod’ button. They either ignore it, or don’t see it, or they wanna see a few members with green names. Yes, the mods are here to serve in a general way. The mods do attend to the members concern whenever they can but sometimes the concern is not really a concern, but a cause for a problem. It at first, doesn’t start that way but when a mod does come around, give an opinion, the opinion is taken the wrong way and it turns out to be a word war, a flame fest and ultimately a flame war.
It’s happened before.
JerseyCaptain wrote:
No one is denying that. In fact, I think several people have tried to reinforce that as one clear reason why arbitrary harshness in moderating is a bad idea. And you know what? There are times when members are, in fact, treated unfairly by moderators, and not granted the basic respect ALL human beings deserve (even if they are responsible for breaking the rules). That is a two-way street.
Yeah, well there are some mods who are also treated unfairly by some members too. It goes both ways. Like you said, a two way street.
JerseyCaptain wrote:
I don't recall anyone saying that moderators have the "power to ban whenever [they] feel like it". Most of us know this is not the case, and that a moderator's actions are logged just as any member's are, and that they may have to explain their actions at some point...to steet, or an admin, or to Togo.
Keywords being ‘At some point’
JerseyCaptain wrote:
A. I've never been a proponent of bashing any staffer or other member. Criticism where it is deserved, yes. Bashing? Hardly. Bashing any member is just plain wrong. Unfortunately it goes on all over this site...with alarming frequency. Similarly, it is quite often treated with alarming indifference by many mods UNTIL someone makes enough of a stink about it. Unless it is a moderator who is bashed. Then all "h-e-double toothpicks" is raised by that mod and his or her closest friends...decrying the great injustice and evil of it all.
B. I have been the target of more disrespect, bashing, flaming and gang cyber-bullying than you probably know. And all of it undeserved. A person having strong opinions and beliefs, and stating them, is no justification for disrespect, bashing, flaming or cyberbullying. And yet I, being a person of strong opinions and beliefs, have quite often been on the receiving end of such foul play...sometimes even by staffers of this site (look, I am not back-handedly attacking you here, but don't come back with a claim that it doesn't ever happen. It's happened, and people KNOW it. And they know about each case.)
Criticism is one thing when it is called for but there are times when criticism can turn to harshness. Not bashing, harshness, and sometimes to the extreme. Even giving a member, mod or not, a harsh statement, enough to tear them apart, if they are sensitive, is also wrong and yes, it does go over all the site… with bad results for at least one party. Sometimes the hurt party. And it can be treated with indifference by anyone. And yes, unless it is a moderator who is bashed and bashed unfairly… Then yes, it is time to straighten things out. And these sort of topics are the way to do it. So, that last little A. statement… hmm… sounds familiar.
Yes, I probably don’t know what its like to be the target of disrespect, bashing, flaming and all that other stuff, but I do know what its like on a few other levels. I too am a person of strong opinion and belief and have been criticized for it. Not pleasant is it? So why do it to someone else who hasn’t deserved it by any means? Be they, a mod or not. It’s still wrong. Perhaps, a person who is bashed and or criticized, turned to his or her friends for comfort because what was said was hurtful.
It does happen, which is a sad thing.
JerseyCaptain wrote:
You may realize that you're teaching me nothing here. I could just as easily retort with the statement that a person in authority should judge with wisdom, fairness, impartiality, and logic. And on a case-by-case basis...not either by an arbitrary, cold and/or literal, word-for-word interpretation of the site rules, or with the emotions of anger, offense, embarrassment, jealousy, or out of some misguided loyalty to a friend (ESPECIALLY that!).
However, your statement is not negated by that. It is, however, applicable as much to members in general as it is to moderators and other staffers.
Perhaps I am not teaching you anything but we all learn something new or something said differently in our lives. And yes, a person in authority of power should judge with wisdom and all that stuff and many of the staff here does try to do that, even me. There are times when cold and cruel words are exchanged and taken into a misinterpretation but the emotions of a person targeted by such words can drive that person to extreme levitations, even to the point of going to a friend and letting the pain of said words out. What harm is there in that? None at all from what I can see.
