Now HERE'S a good rant!

Mighty · **Posted:** Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:11 am

Rosetta(Original) wrote:

JerseyCaptain wrote:

I appreciate the show of support everyone. However, I must admit that I feel this will go nowhere. Why?

1. The perpetrators so often ranted about in this board either NEVER see it (because they have no interest in the rant board or because they don't even know it EXISTS, nor how to find it), or they simply don't care even if they DO know it's there (and just might feel as though the rants are either not directed at them, or are totally inapplicable TO them).

2. Bandwagon time again. People love to chime in with their support for a rant (for which I am sure that, like me, the topic authors are most appreciative), but they end up doing little more than that. No change has ever been noted by me as the result of a GOOD rant. Yeah, there are a lot of pointless and repetitive rants on this board...and some are absolute spam. But there ARE some good ones. Could any of you ever say that you saw any good come from it? And whose responsibility is it to see to it that good DOES come of a good, logical or sensible rant? Yes, go ahead...say it with me: "the staff of the site" (mods, admins, the webmaster and even lesser staffers). (Admittedly, we ALL share in that responsibility. If you see a rant and agree with it, you should help to carry forward the sound points made in it...ALL the time. Still, it falls to the staff to effect rules and policy changes as the result of good rants which gain a majority of support. And I don't see that happening much, if at all.)

3. I see moderators agreeing, and I love their support. Who wouldn't? But again, what comes of that in the long term? Just venting? (See my previous point.)

Rants are more than just someone venting their spleen over something which upsets them. In a way, they are also suggestions to the webmaster and his staff that change needs to be effected, in order that the cause of the rant can be eliminated or, at the very least, controlled. That should be the short-term goal of any good rant.

So...where are we going to go from here? Just venting and affirmation which leads nowhere? Or real CHANGE? Are Balto Source, Lion King Source and Animation Source going to eventually be places people can come to (newbies as well as "old-timers"...meaning experienced members) and expect a decent and positive experience? And if they are not having one, shouldn't they at least be able to KNOW that a moderator is going to step in on their behalf, and not simply either sit on a fence (play the middle by reprimanding everyone, including the target who did nothing wrong, as ever so often happens on this site) or else fall back on the excuse of "just report it and we'll get around to it"? Or, worst of all, come down on the wrong person (the target) simply because he or she might stand alone against a group of bullies who are doing their best to appear like the good guys.

As I said before: "talk is cheap". And: "actions speak louder than words". Words help draw attention to a problem. So does talk. But to effect change, you need ACTION. It's long overdue for step two in the process...

Exactly why I dont rant anymore. Some people are gonna disagree and agree with you but,barely anything on this site will change....ever. Its kind of pointless huh?
I'm very positive that in two years I will barely come on at all,even less then I do now....because its becoming an immature waste of time to become a member here when all people wanna do is argue with you about everything and pretend to be your friend,side with a group,hate on someone they've never met in real life and just be completely immature.

I feel bad for Steet above all because he tries so hard to keep all of us happy yet,here we are complaining 24/7 about things that will never change if we dont start with ourselves.

Its ironic isnt it? (and i don't mean you seppala because i've known you for some time and as much as people think you are the antagonist you seem to be the one with the most sense in alot of forum topics)

I agree with you. We need step up and fix are act.

Sushi Roll · **Posted:** Sat Jun 28, 2008 12:42 pm

JerseyCaptain wrote:

Rosetta(Original) wrote:

Exactly why I dont rant anymore. Some people are gonna disagree and agree with you but,barely anything on this site will change....ever. Its kind of pointless huh?
I'm very positive that in two years I will barely come on at all,even less then I do now....because its becoming an immature waste of time to become a member here when all people wanna do is argue with you about everything and pretend to be your friend,side with a group,hate on someone they've never met in real life and just be completely immature.

I feel bad for Steet above all because he tries so hard to keep all of us happy yet,here we are complaining 24/7 about things that will never change if we dont start with ourselves.

Its ironic isnt it? (and i don't mean you seppala because i've known you for some time and as much as people think you are the antagonist you seem to be the one with the most sense in alot of forum topics)

Well, that pretty much sums up how a LOT of people feel...especially former Balto Source members (or inactive ones who hardly ever come here anymore, if at all). Because there is not enough modding going on here, and what is going on is, by and large (with only, sadly, a few noteworthy exceptions), QUITE LOUSY. Some of the mods are often as bad as the bad members...or they just seem to enjoy that power a liiiiiiittle too much...the green name, the finger on the ban button, the ability to say ANYTHING to a member in warning (including countering the member's pleas for help and justice with "you have been warned"...I have warned you [insert persecuted member's name here]"..."last warning [persecuted member's name again]", or to use their own standards and attitudes as a measure of what they feel is worth a warning or ban, and what is worth their entire backing and support (even if it is against another member

).

Thank you very much for the compliment, Rosetta. You know, unlike a small percentage of members here (because most aren't like what I am about to say even if most of them are touchy, argumentative, and prone to going with the crowd even if it means being wrong or hurting another member), I have no great interest in popularity. Sure, I enjoy my positive and benevolent efforts being recognized and applauded. Who would not like that? But I don't seek out group approval, I don't go with the "in crowd", and I decry whenever even another member is being persecuted if I feel it has been done unfairly.

I could point out a specific example that happened last week in the shoutbox...an IDEAL one. However, that would require scanning through pages of "previus messages", and then hiding the names of the participants. And since anyone with enough time and patience on their hands could then go back to match up what was pasted here with what is in the record, I'd be accused of indirect name-dropping (or whatever it's called here). So I will not. But suffice it to say that a brand new member, a young kid, had registered his screen name on his sister's account. When it came to the attention of one of the more senior shoutbox mods and a non-mod staffer (who were both civil about it), yet another mod and a few members had to throw in their two cents harrassing and being unkind to that member...and to ME, thinking I was trying to play the mod role. I wasn't...I was just trying to be friendly and helpful to the kid. And to explain (as the staffer also was, because the kid just wasn't getting it) why he couldn't have an account on his sister's computer (the two or more accounts on one IP thing). Eventually it was solved, but then I was privately (and openly) attacked by a person whom I even thought was a FRIEND (you never really know about people...especially on Balto Source), who accused ME of attacking and harrassing the kid!

(I have since put that member, and another who was there at the time, who quite often DOES "play the role", on "ignore" in my mail list).

And no moderator did a thing to stop the nonsense which came about because of it. Simply because myself and this non-mod staffer were trying to help the kid (and the senior shoutbox mod also came in later and tried to resolve the issue). Why? Who knows? I sure don't. Because maybe the particular members who were harrassing and flaming are "popular" and frequest visitors to the shoutbox? Because the mods are afraid of doing their freaking JOBS when those "popular" and frequent participants are involved (or because those people are their friends)? HMM?

So it goes...*SIGH*

I can understand that it makes them feel nervous when they have to crack down on friends...But, usually if they are your friends they will understand, that is, if they are your real friends. And besides, if they ARE their friends, the mod should know how to speak to them and help them understand what they did wrong.

As for the "popular" thing...Well, I don't see the point...It's not about popularity, it's about being as fair and just as possible. A mods job is to help members with remembering the rules, helping them understand the rules and really banning should be a last resort. They should try to explain things to them over PM instead of just a short little warning. Sometimes it takes alot more than just a short sentence for members to completely understand what they did wrong and why it's wrong.

For example, a new member writes in sms. The mod says not to, but the member continues because he doesn't understand. A PM should be sent. It think it should say something along the lines of :

"SMS is when you shorten words when you write. For example : You would write B4 instead of before or U instead of you. The reason SMS isn't allowed is because it can sometimes be hard to understand and read. So, it was made a rule that members (And staff) cannot use SMS when writing on the site. So, please stop writing in SMS language, it's against the rules. ;D

If you have any other questions about this, please feel free to PM me or another mod.

Thank you."

It should be made clear in the PM that the mod isn't being mean or offensive. As we have all learned...many people on this site take offense easily.

Mighty · **Posted:** Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:47 pm

Quote:

I can understand that it makes them feel nervous when they have to crack down on friends...But, usually if they are your friends they will understand, that is, if they are your real friends. And besides, if they ARE their friends, the mod should know how to speak to them and help them understand what they did wrong.

Friend or foe, the mods are supposed to tell them, what they did wrong. If these mods are going to slack off, they should NOT be a mod. Nor deserve to be a mod. My only question is, why are they beaing so lazy? :roll:

Quote:

As for the "popular" thing...Well, I don't see the point...It's not about popularity, it's about being as fair and just as possible. A mods job is to help members with remembering the rules, helping them understand the rules and really banning should be a last resort. They should try to explain things to them over PM instead of just a short little warning. Sometimes it takes alot more than just a short sentence for members to completely understand what they did wrong and why it's wrong.

pointless indeed. No one is better than anyone else, here. Along with what you say here, I agree.

Sushi Roll · **Posted:** Sat Jun 28, 2008 6:20 pm

Mightybalto1925 wrote:

Quote:

I can understand that it makes them feel nervous when they have to crack down on friends...But, usually if they are your friends they will understand, that is, if they are your real friends. And besides, if they ARE their friends, the mod should know how to speak to them and help them understand what they did wrong.

Friend or foe, the mods are supposed to tell them,

Exactly. There should be no exceptions or loopwholes...Like I said, if they ban one of their friends, the friend should understand that's just their task on the site...

Pommy · **Posted:** Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:54 am

We have argued in the past( Sorry about that. That would be my fault. ), and I know what you're talking about.
It's the same way in Schools( Mainly High Schools ). In my School kids are assigned "jobs" like helping clean the classroom, or something like that. One of the jobs is a " Teacher's Helper ". A student is selected to help the teacher enforce rules for the entire week. Some students are afraid to warn the "Popular kids" because they want to 'fit in' with them.
It's partly like that on here. Popular members aren't warned due to their fans, and fear that they could get flamed by those fans.
It's the same way in the world also. If you even say something 'bad' about a Celebrity ( Like just saying how they did a naked photoshoot when they were underaged) you're jumped on by fans who make excuses.
Excuses are what's going around Balto Source. There's almost always an excuse when a popular member breaks the rules.
However, I must admit that most of the younger mods are mature for their age and do a very good job.

Sushi Roll · **Posted:** Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:57 pm

JerseyCaptain wrote:

Weeeeeeell, I hate to do this (no...actually, I DON'T), but here is precisely one of the kinds of things I have been referring to. And I said I didn't want to do this earlier. But you know? A person can only be pushed and bullied so far. So...

...this is a snippet (read bottom to top) of a shoutbox conversation from tonight. One individual here is being bullied for what apparently was art theft. Now, that person may VERY WELL be as guilty as all get out. And I had no stake in that either way. However, I had a problem with this gang bullying going on. Rather than "name blame", let me just show you what occurred, from the point where I entered (some irrelevant chatter has been cut out of this), and you may then draw your own conclusions (and hopefully see the REAL troublemakers and flamers at work, and where the system ONCE AGAIN failed UTTERLY

):

Lost Feathers (BFD) (3 min) : Chenical~It's dangerous in here

Draco (3 min) : Lucario and nava as well just stop, I'm getting annoyed with everyone now

Kohaku 9595 (4 min) : *thinks*

Lost Feathers (BFD) (4 min) : Nava~ wow, this is what happens when people come in and start yelling at each other

Lucario (4 min) : Strange, I have a question Jersey, why did you report Nava? (Note I am not being hostile, it is just a simple question.)

Nava The wise (4 min) : Wow being reported for nothing. XD

Draco (5 min) : Jersey quit, you're not helping

jerseycaptain (5 min) : Nava - also reported.

TheHuskyWhoCriedWolf (5 min) : Bickering about stealing some DA art 2 hours ago is not interesting. Before Drako pulls out teh AK Ban 7.

Nava The wise (5 min) : Lucario, try telling that to him. XDD

RayJ (5 min) : Already finding my pictures stolen tonight has pissed me off enough. There is my excuse for the foul mood and the ranting at another thief. Enjoy the petty talk, switching over to rp.

Nava The wise (6 min) : This is kinda pointless xD.

Lucario (6 min) : Why is it such a hard thing for people to get along over the internet? Now onto better news, chapter 5 of my Star Fox story is now up for those who are interested. XD

Draco (6 min) : *whistles, starting to shine ban hammer* Midnight--> good, enjoying my sugary treat

MayaHughes (7 min) : RayJ- same here. Rp? 8D

RayJ (7 min) : I'm not going to continue the idle chatter here. This is no longer interesting.

MayaHughes (7 min) : Get a bandage right now, RayJ. D:

jerseycaptain (7 min) : Kohaku - I believe Draco just said it has to stop.

RayJ (7 min) : Ouch. My lip is bleeding.

Kohaku 9595 (8 min) : Jersey were you sugesting that I was trying to cause trouble , in your first "Flamming " post ?

MayaHughes (8 min) : Yay! 8D The sugery sweetness will surely get me out of this stress and depression that's been sittin' on my shoulders that came just a few hours ago. < 3 thank you~

Lucario (8 min) : Woah woah take it easy big guy, yelling at someone who never did anything wrong is sort of weird alright? XD

jerseycaptain (8 min) : Nava, stop playing the role.

Nava The wise (9 min) : Jersey, its also not allowed to use God into the shout box xD

TheHuskyWhoCriedWolf (9 min) : All of this shouldnt be handeld in public.

RayJ (9 min) : Me? Yeah. Like I haven't been reported before. And of course, I have yet to hear of anyone reporting the art thief.

Draco (9 min) : Maya--> *hands* Lol. And ok I said stop guys, so I'd rather not have to pull out my heavy equipment

Kohaku 9595 (9 min) : ...?

jerseycaptain (10 min) : Thank God SOMEONE is making sense in here.

jerseycaptain (10 min) : Thank you, Husky.

jerseycaptain (10 min) : ah...right. Well, that comeback just got you reported.

TheHuskyWhoCriedWolf (10 min) : Jersey Capt.--> I agree on that..

jerseycaptain (10 min) : Lucario, I am not fanning the fires. I am pointing out that the gang bullying is flaming, and must stop. That is NOT fanning.

RayJ (10 min) : Fan the fires, perhaps this box will be a little more interesting then.

jerseycaptain (11 min) : You have no business ranting on here against another member.

Lucario (11 min) : Sadly if the you did not want the fires fnned you would stop the entire thing right now, no offense of course. XD

jerseycaptain (11 min) : The flaming, Kohaku.

Kohaku 9595 (12 min) : I did not under stand what Jersey had just said .

RayJ (12 min) : Exactly why I'm ranting to her for the theft.

jerseycaptain (12 min) : Let's not fan the fires, okay?

TheHuskyWhoCriedWolf (12 min) : Ray J--> Yeah and other guys deal with it! Its how life goes on.

Catwith9lives (12 min) : siad proof. is what I siad on balto?.. I'll ppm it to you for sure

jerseycaptain (12 min) : Kohaku - not for flaming it isn't

Lucario (12 min) : Hang on Kohaku, this soap opera is getting interesting. XD

jerseycaptain (13 min) : Perhaps you should heed your own advice, RayJ.

RayJ (13 min) : Ahaha, gang bullying. Perhaps people need to grow up and deal with it then.

Lost Feathers (BFD) (13 min) : RayJ~ wow, even I felt that burn!

jerseycaptain (13 min) : Draco is right. And SHE is a mod. PM.

MayaHughes (13 min) : Will do, Draco. :3

Lucario (13 min) : It seems as though I have dropped in at a bad moment in time...

jerseycaptain (14 min) : I never said stealing art was right. I have no interest in this other than finding it RIDICULOUS that you are engaged in open gang bullying here, RayJ.

RayJ (14 min) : You can't admit to me that you stole Cat. I am positive you did, and you won't admit it.

RayJ (16 min) : By the way, my name isn't "ray".

Draco (19 min) : Ok instead of this, if cat can really prove it's her she can pm me or the mods about it with said proof. But you all can help us more by finding the real artists, which are probably around other popular art sites like SA, FA and that lion king.org site or w/e

MayaHughes (19 min) : Jersey- I was talking about the 'points' thing. -_-

Catwith9lives (19 min) : ?? you getting weird... OMG i do have the guts I just told you what happend and still you don't belive me.. maybe your just very thick.....I told you wha happened and how I did my art....

RayJ (20 min) : Yeah, and stealing and getting away with it while everyone tries to "keep the peace" is totally acceptable. I deserve the flames now, a "taste of my own medicine", I should just shut up and let the thief continue stealing.

jerseycaptain (20 min) : Maya - yeah, really.

MayaHughes (21 min) : Jersey- no, not really. XD

RayJ (21 min) : Perhaps you removed most of the art? Perhaps that is a CAT artwork site?

jerseycaptain (21 min) : No, RayJ, what you're doing is bullying and threatening. And that is unacceptable.

jerseycaptain (21 min) : "Points"? Is THAT how you people do this?

RayJ (21 min) : By the way, my name isn't "ray".

RayJ (21 min) : Like we're going to slow everything down and move to PMs. Cat should have the guts to say to everything that she is stealing and will remove her art.

Catwith9lives (22 min) : ah yes i did sorry.. ray.. why do you think there is no husky art in the LKFAA gallery on my page....there is only a black panther with flames that i did in photoshop

Kohaku 9595 (22 min) : Point for RayJ.

jerseycaptain (22 min) : If you ask me, this stuff should not be going on in the open on the shoutbox. It should be resolved by PM.

RayJ (23 min) : Cat that's a bunch of crap. If your "brother", which I doubt even exists, did anything, you should have the brains to remove the work yourself. Which you haven't done/

Catwith9lives (24 min) : well thats not my problem then is it Ray.. if you don't belive me because all you want to do is flame me.. i told you how I did my art.. I have no idea what iscribble is and I told you about the huskie thing on LKFAA .. my brother changed my username to huskkie then got her art and posted it.. and now evry one thinks I did it while my brother is getting away with it.. he even logged on to my achool account onto balto and pretended to be dolphy

RayJ (24 min) : Kohaku haven't you done that for your past few posts? Isn't that spamming?

jerseycaptain (24 min) : Well...hello box.

Well, RayJ was pretty mad...I was too. There has been a recent art theft discovery on Deviantart...So many artists are on edge about this.

But, that is no excuse to call someone out on the shoutbox like this. Although, I think it was dealt with. Draco warned a few times and was watching to see if it got carried away. I thought she did a good job and from what I see she usually does. She's always patient and willing to listen to every side of the argument...And she'll even try to talk it out with whoever's causing trouble and makes it so no bans are necessary. I think she handles things best. Sometimes, it's better to try to talk things about before just banning... (It could have been alot worse, I've SEEN worse...)

Ghost-Unit · **Posted:** Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:09 pm

Hmm...

In all honesty, this appears to me to be an isolated event that isn't noteworthy, and makes the situation look worse than it actually is. What happened there is a very small conflict, and I found my self wondering, as I read that, what the issue there was. I....can...somewhat see how that could be flaming/bullying. But the only thing that made it such was a lack of evidence of theft. I think this incident just generally makes everyone involved look bad.

It might be better if you posted the conversation in whole....edited evidence is kind of an oxymoron.

And why did you report Nava...?

Quote:

Well, there's much more going on there than just that. Much more. And I won't name blame here, but I can assure you that I learned, tonight, as a result of this little exchange, that one particular shoutbox moderator (who was not present for this) apparently has been having little "hate on Seppala" chats as the result of an off-site rant, on my forum, where several people expressed their disappointment and frustration about Balto Source in general. So now there's a little flame gang working to "get revenge" because I banned this one mod from my site (who was just a member there...a NON-PARTICIPATORY member). After she pleaded her case, I showed her the decency of letting her back in with a clean slate. Before I learned of this little flame gang thing. This little group out to exact petty vengeance for their friend whenever I appear in the shoutbox. NOOOOOW it all starts to come together... :roll:

BUT...I won't drop any names.

Not the "let's hate Seppala" movement again. Here we go again, one big circle. A year later, and they're after you again.

Mighty · **Posted:** Sat Jul 05, 2008 4:37 pm

Ghost-Unit)WoF( wrote:

Hmm...

In all honesty, this appears to me to be an isolated event that isn't noteworthy, and makes the situation look worse than it actually is. What happened there is a very small conflict, and I found my self wondering, as I read that, what the issue there was. I....can...somewhat see how that could be flaming/bullying. But the only thing that made it such was a lack of evidence of theft. I think this incident just generally makes everyone involved look bad.

It might be better if you posted the conversation in whole....edited evidence is kind of an oxymoron.

And why did you report Nava...?

Quote:

Well, there's much more going on there than just that. Much more. And I won't name blame here, but I can assure you that I learned, tonight, as a result of this little exchange, that one particular shoutbox moderator (who was not present for this) apparently has been having little "hate on Seppala" chats as the result of an off-site rant, on my forum, where several people expressed their disappointment and frustration about Balto Source in general. So now there's a little flame gang working to "get revenge" because I banned this one mod from my site (who was just a member there...a NON-PARTICIPATORY member). After she pleaded her case, I showed her the decency of letting her back in with a clean slate. Before I learned of this little flame gang thing. This little group out to exact petty vengeance for their friend whenever I appear in the shoutbox. NOOOOOW it all starts to come together... :roll:

BUT...I won't drop any names.

Not the "let's hate Seppala" movement again. Here we go again, one big circle. A year later, and they're after you again.

I thought that, a long time ago. It sems like, it was planed out. Is this why you started the, " ways of the freedom movement"?

Animation Source Forums

Now HERE'S a good rant!