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erm ye but you don't wanna freak your dog out geez .. you wanna get it in your dogs head that you're the pack leader.. by doing simple demands and commands or showing them.. no need for a collar.. to abuse the poor thing

Yea see thats one problem...many people think in order to be the "Alpha" they have to use force and aggression...not so

i know?.. but i don't use force and aggression.. i use communication and body language.. no need to scare your dog to tell them whose boss.. correct them.. in a good way.. i work in a shelter lol i find myself saying this everywhere haha.. and we use clicker training and half choke half nylon collars (if you know what they look like) .. and treats.. but ye..

I don't think anything like that is necassary..gentle leaders work great for heel in training..oh btw I was discussing this with a friend of mine..idk if you know of this but heres part of our convo. (the name of my friend has been substituted for privacy reasons)

Raikou Wolf: point to people which ones are the best to go by
Raikou Wolf: :3
Friend: sounds good. i can hide the cesar milan books when i restock.
Friend: millan. whatever.
Raikou Wolf: xDD
Raikou Wolf: yea i find him a bit odd
Raikou Wolf: hes ok but just some of the methods he uses im like meh
Raikou Wolf: im kinda arguing with someone on a balto fan forum about him xD
Friend: oh, i hate the man.
Friend: the first episode of his show i saw, he held a dog up by the collar until the dog's tongue turned purple.
Raikou Wolf: P+P
Raikou Wolf: wtf
Raikou Wolf: are you f****ing kdding me
Raikou Wolf: and they broadcasted that?
Friend: no, i'm not. i can't believe they even showed the footage.
Raikou Wolf: gaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh
Raikou Wolf: abuse!
Friend: he was working with a human aggressive dog. the dog's muzzle came off, and he hung the dog by the neck to keep from being bitten.
Raikou Wolf: -_-;
Friend:it's the episode with a jindo dog who's aggressive toward people...i don't remember any of the details, i saw it a few years ago.
Raikou Wolf: hmm
Raikou Wolf: check this out
Raikou Wolf: http://ngcblog.nationalgeographic.com/d ... erer/?p=26
Friend: those primal sounds are the sounds of a dog gasping for breath. and good training does not "break" a dog.
Friend: Cesar may have been calm and assertive, but the dog's tongue was also purple and he was lying on the floor, gasping for breath by the end of the session.
Raikou Wolf: and they
Raikou Wolf: say its the dogs fault
Raikou Wolf: *shakes head*
Friend: i don't care what his intent was. that dog submitted because that dog could not breathe enough to do anything else.
Raikou Wolf: cruel..
Friend: that's my interpretation.

thats odd.. i've seen every episode (without miss) recorded on tv or not.. i have not seen that ever?? so it's a shock that your friend said that.. cuz Brad Pattison does that stuff.. but ye.. never in all his episodes and seasons WITHOUT MISS ! that i've seen him do so.. not saying your friend is lying but i'm implying it

and i checked the site out.. and it's true.. any other dog trainer ould have done so.. the dog was pulling on his lead obviously the dog is gonna choke himself.. Ceasar did nothing.. thats like your dog pulling on your lead and people calling you aggressive (the fact that you let your dog choke himself to walk) and being incontrollable..

but hey prove me that your friend really said this .. like why couldn't you mention his/her name.. not like i would kill them or something or hunt them just because they said it.. cuz you could have just written all of this yourself who knows ?!?!

I saw that episode with the Jindo Dog being practically strangled. >_> I definitely don't agree with Cesar's methods, I think they're just completely heartless and can kill dogs.

Want a good trainer? Try Victoria Stilwell, she actually trains the owners as well as the dogs, without bashing them up or hanging them by their leads like Cesar.

Thank you -,-; you pointed out so many things that are true

Thats a human for ya lol. Though I hope he is recognized as a bad trainer and is banned from television...peopel need to open thier eyes

oh i've heard of this guy and seen a bit of his shows.. well not the suppose cruel one .. some of the points in here are very well true and some i'm not too convinced .. but i only listen and see sources and facts.. I always thought he was nice he has so many well trained dogs .. ah well.. some people don't know how to train dogs with good and tender methods i guess

Oh alot of people know of the tender and good methods..but some chose not to use them because they think that force is the best and quickest way to get thier dog to do something...now it might be the quickest way but its not healthiest way..

ye.. true.. but ye people don't realize that dogs are just like our children. We feed them, take care of them, and so on and so forth. You don't see people beating their children to teach them quicker, you put them in a time out ( for your dog it would be the crate) and eventually they learn may not be right away but takes time to do the right thing, kind of like..... Practice makes perfect. And the choke and pincher thing well i use it with me dogs but not the negative way the pinch to be honest i get the Dogs in Canada magazine writing about the pinch collars and they don't hurt the dog, maybe depending the fur, i'm not a professional just reader and researcher, (like if you got a Jack Russel it'll probably hurt but they don't make it in their size .. but dogs like Golden's, Newfies, and the thick fur wont feel it much it'll more likely be just a gentle tug on the neck) but if you want i can post the article here?!