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 Post subject: Re: To anyone who wants to own a wolf or wolfdog.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:03 am 
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Outlaw wrote:
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You just have to know what you're doing really. My brother says that Put bulls shouldn't be illegal just cos of a couple of deaths and that if raised the 'right' way, they won't attack, but it's not true. They were bred to fight and defend and it'll always be that way. As long as everyone knows who to react and know what to do and how to talk to the animal the right way, the family and friends will be fine.

You just got to know what to do when the wolf side shows. I also agree about the training, but there are times when it's just trying to defend something and training suddenly doesn't matter.


Sorry if this might start a flame war - but this post caught my eye. Pit Bulls were bred to fight, yea, okay, you're right about that - but they were bred to fight DOGS, and only dogs. They're dog-agressive, but that has nothing to do with their attacks towards humans. It seems like everyday there's a new newspaper article on Pitbull attacks, but half the time it isn't even a Pitbull OR a Pitbull mix. I've seen articles with pictures of Rhodesian Ridgebacks and Black Labs being labled as Pitbulls. Plus, since you obviously don't know this, Pitbulls are NOT human-agressive. If they're fighting and the owners have to pull them apart for any reason and the dog bites them, it's automatically killed. They were never bred to attack humans, and it's NOT in their blood either. It's ignorant people like you who give them a bad name - I suggest doing some research before making a post like that again, especially on this site, because there are quite a few Pitbull lovers on here who wont be too happy.


Anyway, on the topic of owning wolf-dogs, I agree with the above statement completely. Everybody who "loves" wolves enough to want to own one should know how they behave, and that if you don't train it from puppyhood and keep training it 10-15 minutes a day, 7 days a week, 4 weeks a month, 12 months a year until it dies, then you'll have a poor-behaved wolf-dog like the one in the paragraph above. Wolves are wild, and people who breed wolfdogs are just idiotic, I mean seriously, there are few people in the world who even know how to train their own dogs (no pun intended), and wolves are WILD ANIMALS, that, no matter HOW hard you train them, will always have that wild instinct. They're just not ment to be kept as pets.

There's nothing wrong with wanting a wolf-dog, however, they're just not good house-dogs. I also with Maugrim, just get a Tamaskan.

Summing up your point of view...
Pitbulls aren't naturally bad tempered against humans. Attacks on humans are caused by a lack of training/proper treatment. Thus, they need to be properly trained and treated to be able to function as a pet. Anyone who can't do that should be kept form owning one.
Wolfdogs on the other hand will behave poorly "if you don't train it from puppyhood and keep training it 10-15 minutes a day, 7 days a week, 4 weeks a month, 12 months a year until it dies." Thus, they need to be properly trained and treated to be able to function as a pet. Anyone who can't do that should think twice before wanting to own one.
...
Sounds like the same principle to me. So since you are a proponent of pitbull-ownership I take it you are also ready to step up for wolfdog-ownership?

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 Post subject: Re: To anyone who wants to own a wolf or wolfdog.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:36 am 
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Outlaw wrote:
Cogitor wrote:
Summing up your point of view...
Pitbulls aren't naturally bad tempered against humans. Attacks on humans are caused by a lack of training/proper treatment. Thus, they need to be properly trained and treated to be able to function as a pet. Anyone who can't do that should be kept form owning one.
Wolfdogs on the other hand will behave poorly "if you don't train it from puppyhood and keep training it 10-15 minutes a day, 7 days a week, 4 weeks a month, 12 months a year until it dies." Thus, they need to be properly trained and treated to be able to function as a pet. Anyone who can't do that should think twice before wanting to own one.
...
Sounds like the same principle to me. So since you are a proponent of pitbull-ownership I take it you are also ready to step up for wolfdog-ownership?


First of all, you're above post made absolutely NO sence to me AT ALL. Second of all, EVERY dog of EVERY breed needs training. Wolf-dogs require more training because they're WILD ANIMALS. How can you even compare a Pitbull to a wild wolf? They're two COMPLETELY different things.

I didn't say anything in my post about me wanting a wolf, owning a wolf, or stepping-up to owning a wolf, so I suggest reading my post over again before making another smart-mouthed comment that has nothing to do with anything.

and thanks Maugrim for agreeing with me.

1. I compared pitbulls to wolfdogs, not to wolves, so I suggest reading my post better next time. Wolfs and wolfdogs are two completely different things; a wolf is a wild animal. A wolfdog isn't a wild animal (it's a man-made mixture). I think you made this mistake on purpose, so you wouldn't have to use real arguments.
2. Neither did I. I talked about wolfdogs, not wolves, and I said that since you are a proponent of allowing pitbull-ownership, you should also be support wolfdog ownership. Supporting ownership and actually owning are different things.

I'll restate:
Wolfdogs need additional training because they contain wild blood. Pitbulls (and probably other races as well, the same applies to them) need additional training because they are aggressive against other dogs (according to you). Point is that both races, be it for other reasons, can only be kept when a lot of time is invested in them, more so than in other dogs. Therefore, if you want to restrict the ownership of the wolfdog (because most people aren't up to the task of raising one), it's only fair you apply the same logic to those dog races that require a more intensive training as well (also because most people aren't up to that task).

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 Post subject: Re: To anyone who wants to own a wolf or wolfdog.
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:09 am 
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Outlaw wrote:
Cogitor wrote:
1. I compared pitbulls to wolfdogs, not to wolves, so I suggest reading my post better next time. Wolfs and wolfdogs are two completely different things; a wolf is a wild animal. A wolfdog isn't a wild animal (it's a man-made mixture). I think you made this mistake on purpose, so you wouldn't have to use real arguments.
2. Neither did I. I talked about wolfdogs, not wolves, and I said that since you are a proponent of allowing pitbull-ownership, you should also be support wolfdog ownership. Supporting ownership and actually owning are different things.

I'll restate:
Wolfdogs need additional training because they contain wild blood. Pitbulls (and probably other races as well, the same applies to them) need additional training because they are aggressive against other dogs (according to you). Point is that both races, be it for other reasons, can only be kept when a lot of time is invested in them, more so than in other dogs. Therefore, if you want to restrict the ownership of the wolfdog (because most people aren't up to the task of raising one), it's only fair you apply the same logic to those dog races that require a more intensive training as well (also because most people aren't up to that task).


Wolves, wolf-dogs, regardless of the breed, if it has WOLF in it, then it's partly a WILD ANIMAL. Pitbulls, Dobermans, Rottweilers, etc. all require owners with experience, but wolf-dog owners require even more experience. In no way was I "restricting the ownership of the wolf-dog", and in no way was I saying that because I can train Pitbulls then I can train a wolfdog. It's common sence that wolf-dogs require owners who know what their doing, and, well anybody who doesn't know that shouldn't even THINK about owning one.


I agree again.

I don't know how Pitbulls crept into the conversation but they're not really anything to do with wolfdogs. Pitbull are not advisable to be kept as pets unless with firm training because of their fighting instincts whereas wolfdogs shouldn't be kept of pets because of they're wild heritage. You wouldn't keep a wolf as a pet.

However, I suppose you could say that a similarity between the two is that they both need firm training.


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 Post subject: Re: To anyone who wants to own a wolf or wolfdog.
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 2:58 am 
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One thing, wolf-mutts are not "Hybrids".

Yeah, I seen that post on FP, but I disagree.


I do, however, agree with LightFlow on FP.

Quote:
Every well-behaved wolf-dog I knew was an indoor only dog. Ie, we found that keeping them in the yard, or letting them sleep in the yard even, would cause them to be more unmanagable. It had to be a constant in the house dog, and only outside with the owners. And having said that, I'd say 98% of the population of humans do not know how to handle simple dogs, let alone large dogs, let alone wolf-mutts.

HOWEVER, having said all that, they CAN make good pets. I've worked with too many of them, trained too many of them, and seen too many of them live their entire lives without incidence. I've seen rescued wolf-mutts from the pound who were fixed and became great pets. The thing is, there's not many people who use appropriate methods. (For instance, most dominance theories are completely outdated and aren't effective for owners to try on wolf-mutts because wolf-mutts get large enough to basically bite back. Dogs are more forgiving. Wolf-mutts aren't.)

And every behavioral problem we saw in wolf-mutts we saw in every other breed of dog (we were, I think, the only training facility who would work with and train wolf-mutts in normal classrooms and one on one. No one else would.) The wolf-mutts though did tend to have EVERY behavioral problem crop up, while your average dog would have 2-3 out of the possible 100 behavioral problems.

With wolf-mutts, genetically, you could have a 25% mix and have it act/behave 100% like a wolf. Or you could have a 98% mix and have it entirely behave more like a dog. Behavioral genetics are almost a complete unknown at this time.

In any case, wolf-mutts aren't illegal where I live. You can have anything under 98% mixture.


I'm all for those people who had experience with wolf-mutts, know what they are doing, ect. Any dog can attack for no reason. I was attacked by a German Shepherd Dog out of nowhere. I did nothing. I was just standing, and all the sudden, the dog attacked me. Any dog, in the wrong hands, will become problem dogs.

In my experience, the wolf-mutts were just like any other normal dog. They had owners that had experience(I mean REAL experience. Watching some wolf movie, or "Living With Wolves" is not experience.), know 100% what their doing(Talked to people who worked with wolves and wolf-mutts for years, researched, ect), and so and so. Considering 95% of dog owners don't know what their doing, you wonder why there is so many dog attacks. heh.

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 Post subject: Re: To anyone who wants to own a wolf or wolfdog.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:35 pm 
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Random Bunny wrote:
In my experience, the wolf-mutts were just like any other normal dog. They had owners that had experience(I mean REAL experience. Watching some wolf movie, or "Living With Wolves" is not experience.), know 100% what their doing(Talked to people who worked with wolves and wolf-mutts for years, researched, ect), and so and so. Considering 95% of dog owners don't know what their doing, you wonder why there is so many dog attacks. heh.


They're not like normal dogs. You can't compare a wolf hybrid (or wolf-mutt though I've never heard that term before) with something like a Cocker Spaniel or a Rough Collie. One of their parents is a wolf.

Wolves are wild animals, not pets. Ok, yeah, if you know what you're doing and have the space, time and attention for such an animal then I suppose that's fine but that doesn't make it right.

And I think that people who have quite literally lived with wolves have plenty of experience with the animals. Not trying to flame but this topic just keeps bouncing back on itself.


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 Post subject: Re: To anyone who wants to own a wolf or wolfdog.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:56 am 
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They are not hybrids.

Anyways, no they are not just like any other dog, but behavior-wise they are just like any other dog.

Quote By LightFlow On FP: //"Genetically there is more difference between you and someone of a different race than between a wolf and your dog. Behaviorally, there are a lot of arguments whether or not any of the behaviors differ at all (from my experiences... they don't. The only difference is that wolves and wolf-mixes can act on those and make you sit up and pay attention better than a pomeranian can.) Size-wise, wolves typically are larger than dogs, but not all dogs. Intelligence, you can find some dogs who are as smart."

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 Post subject: Re: To anyone who wants to own a wolf or wolfdog.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:57 pm 
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Random Bunny wrote:
They are not hybrids.

Anyways, no they are not just like any other dog, but behavior-wise they are just like any other dog.

Quote By LightFlow On FP: //"Genetically there is more difference between you and someone of a different race than between a wolf and your dog. Behaviorally, there are a lot of arguments whether or not any of the behaviors differ at all (from my experiences... they don't. The only difference is that wolves and wolf-mixes can act on those and make you sit up and pay attention better than a pomeranian can.) Size-wise, wolves typically are larger than dogs, but not all dogs. Intelligence, you can find some dogs who are as smart."


There are several different names for them, wolfdog, wolfation, wolf mix but wolfdog hybrid is perhaps the most correct term.

Even your quote said '.. there are a lot of arguments whether or not any of the behaviours differ at all..' Some people say there is no difference, others say there is a great difference. It all depends on the handling. A labrador can either be a gentle, loyal and obediant pet or a boisterous, uncontrollable animal, depending upon the training. I'm sure this is similar with wolfdogs. However, the idea of it being part wolf must be considered. Any pet that is part wild animal must require greater training than a pure dog.


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 Post subject: Re: To anyone who wants to own a wolf or wolfdog.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:49 am 
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Dude, if you want a wolf hybrid or a pure wolf, you have to be experienced with wolves, know their behaviors and train them 24/7, 7 days a week, 365 days a year until it dies. If you're not prepared to, or don't have the experience, don't get one.

I've heard more of dingo crosses coming into the marked here than wolves (rather obvious as Australia's wolves are dingos) and it's the same thing, dingos are still basically Australian wolves and still will act like them. A dingo, dingo hybrid, wolf or wolf hybrid will NEVER fully be a domesticated tame house pet, as they're wild animals, and their behaviors are for situations in the wild, NOT in a house with a human/family.

That guy with the the hybrid was lucky he knew how wolves saw others and that the wolf saw him as his alpha, otherwise the hybrid would have had the run of the place and thought it was alpha. And nobody challenges the alpha in the wild.

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 Post subject: Re: To anyone who wants to own a wolf or wolfdog.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:30 am 
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Wolves are not just wild versions of the dogs we keep as pets. Rather, most dog behaviour is modified wolf behaviour. Dogs have learnt to live with people.
Science has revealed that dogs have evolved this genetic capability to recognize human gestures and voice tones. This is not possessed by the wolf, so perhaps crossing the two is not such a good idea.

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