Animation Source Forums

Then the same would apply for you guys who want to see this stuff removed. Just becuase you all have "support" doesn't mean anything.

Yes, but we're doing it because we care about the way this site effects other people.

That could work, Steet. I've seen it work on fanfiction.net: An author has their regular fic up, but they have a link to a different site that has a 'spicier' version of said fic, only you have to be 18 to enter and read, and it'll block someone younger if they try to get in. Perhaps you could make it mandatory where people but their date of birth in their profiles. (I know people can fake it, but let's face it: we can't stop everyone. But it would stop a good number of younger kids, and that's what counts.)

Yeah, that's a good plan! I say we go for it!

People can warp their minds around whatever they want to and write about it. But they can certainly write about those things off this site! I find gay fics VERY HORRIBLE, and downright STUPID! People who write fics which have gay content *coughs and rolls eyes* are teaching other people that its ok to be gay when its not! Nor is it good to do IT all the time, or to be insestual. The Bible claerly states this:
"Thou shalt not commit adultry"
"Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors wife"
etc.etc. there are more but I can't remember them

same here. the reason i believe such fics should be banned is becuase is not as much based on religion as it is what is appropriate. Although i do agree with you snowdog, that it wasn't the way god intended for people to be, but you must learn to accept their ways, even if you don't agree with them. You must also remeber that everyone is different, and those people of that category have feelings too. but it isn't so much as a few of these fics are containing 'gay' content, i'm pretty sure a few that have 'strait' content can be found as well. i really don't care about what type of innappropriate content is in these more explict fics as much as I care about them being posted up on the site. period.

Sorry to disagree with you Ghost Unit, but I must. It is censorship all the way through. I don’t care what you say. You’re letting your ‘repulsion’ for this stuff affect your true judgment here. You mean to say that you would never in your life write a fanfic about Balto or the Lion King and put it in with the morals we all deal with everyday, such as incest or homosexuality? Two words: Grow Up and accept this type of stuff. Stop acting like a kid. Let me tell you something, there is no such thing as a kid friendly site. Maybe you haven’t noticed but there are more teens and young adults on this site than there are little kids.

As for Rotramel’s post… Two words: Well said!



I agree with you Tibb, all the way. I understand the peoples concern for stuff like this. If I were a different person, I’d be against some of the alleged material on this site, but I am who and what I am, so I have solely decided that fanfics like this should be allowed. I have said it time and again but apparently I am wasting my breath and space on this topic but the writers are not to blame for the stuff they write whether its homosexuality or incest at all. For the love of all things, freedom of writing being one of them, get over it people! You’re kicking a dead horse figuratively speaking of course.



Back to that again are we DT? Well, sorry to disagree but I must. If you say that Rotramel’s fics belong somewhere else just because one of his stories contains incest, have you ever considered the possibility that maybe his stories are better because it contains such a thing? Yes, I am agreeing with all that he said in his post. And in case you’re wondering this is both professional (as a mod on the site) and personal, on my part and no I will not back down. I will stand up for him. If you say that AFL belongs somewhere else than that means all of Rotramel’s other stories have to go too. Do you really want that? You said so yourself that he is a good writer and that you respect him not just as a writer but as a person. Well, if that’s true then saying stories like AFL should be moved somewhere else because it contains inappropriate content; I have to say that your last statement about Rotramel was completely false. You cannot admire a person’s work for so long and then criticize him when he writes something such as AFL. It couldn’t have been written any other way. As Rotramel said, he loves this site and if you think his brilliant and inspiring works belongs someplace else than that is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

Also, DT, Hitler did have support for his plan to exterminate Jews but do you know what happened in the end? He lost that battle and the Jews are free to live.

What you’re saying is downright wrong. Who made you the judge of the fanfics that get accepted to the site? That’s the fanfic moderators’ job, not yours or anyone else’s, excluding Steet, considering he is the webmaster. I respect him greatly and so should you. What he says goes in the end and did you not read one of his own posts? He doesn’t want to see some of these fanfics go because you’re uncomfortable with what they teach but he does care about peoples’ opinions which is why he made this topic for us in the first place but as it turns out, even if the majority of people want the sexually deviant fanfics to stay or to have them leave forever, he will find a way to keep ALL of his members happy. He doesn’t want to see good writers leave. You call this a kid friendly site? That title is starting to go dim now and it is not because of the deviant fanfics we have here. You know it and so do I. Stop the fighting and just accept the facts. Stories like AFL are not hurting anyone. You are letting it hurt yourself. You also say that you care about the site and the way it affects other people? Great job of showing it. You’re only hurting those writers who have worked so hard to build up the fan fiction part of the site. Your actions have consequences, that is true but what consequence does writing have for a person. I’ll admit I have read some hard core fan fics, both on this site and on others that have made me uncomfortable but you know what? I ignored my discomfort right away. I did not care what ‘inappropriate parts’ of the fanfic bothered me but rather the story as a whole. You cannot stop reading a certain fanfic just because you’re uncomfortable. That shows how small minded you really are. Harsh words, I know but it is the truth.

And the truth does hurt.

Bottom line is here, suck it up and accept these things for what they are. You’re fighting over nothing at all. And in the end, when Steet does make his choice for this matter, here’s something else, accept his decision and do not fight it. He will find a way to make this better for all of us. He wants to make sure ALL of his members are satisfied. He does not wish for any, even the writers themselves, to leave this place.

Oooookay, let's go at this yet again...

Number One, and I want to get this out of the way quickly and painlessly... my warning earlier regarding the treatment of a certain Mod was as a result to the following post by Ghost unit.

The mod said. "Okay, I'm gonna be quiet now"
and Ghost Unit responded "Music to my ears".

Now as long as we're talking about preserving one's right to express their opinons, and as long as this isn't degrading into a flame war I suggest you police your side of the argument before coming after my response to it JerseyCaptain. That comment was unneeded, unwarranted and could have been hurtful... and I swear on everything holy there will be hell to pay if she calls me upset because of something that is said here, understand, we clear now?

Okay, now, back to the issue at hand.

Jersey Captain, your comment about Kids under age ignoring the warnings and reading them anyway... duh! ...weren't you ever a kid, didn't you want to do things you knew your weren't supposed to? ...as long as we put the warnings up it is the PARENTS job to police what their kids take in. The warnings are there, just like a PG-13, PG movie... if parents want to let their kids of the leash on the internet I assure you they can find much more harmful things than AFL ...it is NOT nor has it EVER been Baltosource's job to filter what these kids take in. That is not our concern. We put the warnings up, both in a pop-up, and a paragraph within the story itself, and I even put mine in the description... you ignore three warnings and it scars you for life, I don't care. I tried, you didn't listen, case closed.

Now, I never said incest wasn't wrong, it is WRONG let me state that clearly now for everyone to hear and see, IT IS WRONG. However, if we only wrote about what was good then our stories wouldn't be worth reading now would they? ...evil is present in the real world, and many writers wish to see how the characters would react to the real world, to the ugliness of the real world instead of some pristine lie where all is happily ever after. The character's in the Balto movies live without consequence, everything turns out alright for them in the end no matter what they did... Steele tried to KILL Balto, that's attempted murder, what happened to him as a result? ..he lost his position on the team? ....what kind of consequence is that? ...In my stories and in my world I have created for these characters. They make decisions, they lie, they cheat, steal, kill at times... all for various reasons, they all have their reasons... but they are held accountable in the end. I have NEVER let a "bad guy" go unpunished for his mis-deeds, never, justice ALWAYS prevails. Incest in and of itself is NOT obscene. As long as we're looking at definitions, let's look at the US Supreme Court's Description of Obcene "That which has no artistic merit and causes sexual thoughts." ...hmmm... is it just me or is a creative story that many love classified as having "artistic merit"? Now, rape is a subject I've breached in my stories, you all may remember Sawyer's Falls, my anthropomorphic Balto/western. In it, Jenna is raped by Steele... now, I challenge you to take a look at this scene... Okay, and I'm posting it right here because it's been accepted on the site, so why not...

" Later that evening Jenna was closing out the register and preparing to go home. She was removing the bills from the cash drawer when the door opened and someone stepped into the darkened store.
“We’re closed.” Jenna said, not stopping her work.
“Jenna?” A familiar voice said.
Jenna sighed.
“Sheriff we’re closed. You’ll have to come back tomorrow.”
Steele walked up behind her and put his paw over her mouth.
“Steele, what are you…”
Steele cut her off by pulling her head close to his chest.
“You know Jenna...” He said, his other arm wrapping around her stomach. “…you’ve grown into a beautiful young woman.”
Jenna could smell a very strong stench of alcohol on the Sheriff’s breath. Her eyes swelled with fright as his hand crept upward.
She thought of the gun stowed safely under the counter.
“If only I had it on me.” Jenna thought. “Oh well, you’ve handled yourself before you knew how to shoot Jenna, just do it again.”
As Steele’s touch got too high for her comfort, she bit his hand.
Steele yelled and spun her around. Then he backhanded her across the face, throwing her to the floor.
Jenna’s eyes were starting to water from the stinging slap.
“You little *****!” Steele said. “What are you some kind of animal? You bit me!”
Jenna summoned some of her courage and sat up.
“My father will have your head for this Steele.”
Steele smiled and knelt next to her, grabbed her scarlet hair with one hand and resumed his unwanted efforts with the other, as before.
“No he won’t Jenna.” He said, unfastning the buttons that held closed the top of her dress. “See, I’ve got his permission, and that’s the only one that truly matters.”
He pulled Jenna’s hair harder, lifting her hands off the floor.
Jenna’s eyes filled with tears as she realized what he said was true.

Now... you see a problem with that? ...I mean I could've went into a lot more detail if you'd like... I'm perfectly capable, BUT I didn't ...now why would I do something like that? ...I mean... if I'm just out to destroy the site, if I don't care about the characters, if I don't care about my readers, why wouldn't I? ...hmmm let me think, first of all, all of the above are wrong. I care about these character's probly more than anyone else on this site, I've already shared my feelings on this site, and my readers are the most important body of people on this earth to me next to my family and my girl. ...now, that said, the reason I DIDN'T go into detail is because it wasn't warranted, wouldn't help the story and might hurt my readers... I censored myself, no further input needed... now, JerseyCaptain, you classified rape as "sexually deviant" so I challenge you to tell me exactly WHY you feel that that scene was so classified? ...and why the above scene shouldn't be on the site. ...can you do that? ...I would apprecite it.

Now that I've covered that statement, on to the next one. You said that "the Balto and Lion King movies were not about "ugly" things. They were about hope, loyalty, family, and overcoming adversity and tragedy." Now, I challenge you... how do you know when you have loyalty, if you never see someone stab someone else in the back (figuratively speaking of course). How do you have hope if you never face a dark time. How do you know what good is if evil isn't present, how in the blazes do you rise up and be a hero if there is nothing evil, nothing bad, nothing wrong in the story to rise against? ...you don't. You have mellow, way too often stretched out and empty stories that are completely meaningless... you have the Balto sequels. I rest my case on that one, there's nothing more to say.

Now, this one REALLY confused me... even as I'm typing this I don't really understand it...

"Technically, people who enjoy writing about this stuff, reading about it, role-playing it, etc., are people who have been on more than one occasion defined or classified as those who feel they can use the internet to push the envelope in ways they would not in normal society (no matter which society that is). The measure of it is irrelevant...that it exists IS. That it is allowed to be posted on a site, even in limited form, which was not designed to promote that kind of material IS. That it is allowed to be posted on a site, even in limited form, which is supposed to be solely for fandom of the Balto cartoon movies, and the Lion King cartoon movies, IS."


I beleive you need to look more carefully at what I said... I said it SHOULDN'T be allowed... you look like you're making a case against it, and saying what I was saying isn't relevent to the problem at hand... O.o is all I have to say to that, I was siding WITH YOU on that point... go figure...

Okay, way to get smart on the next one... I'm not suggesting that it would even be possible to sue Steet over something like this... it would never happen, and I'm a legal administration guy, I have training, I know... wouldn't happen in a million years. That said I was talking about holding the city at blame for building too sharp a curve... it wouldn't happen. If you brought it up the judge would laugh in your face... they placed a warning, you ignored it, your fault. I placed a warning, you ignore it, your fault, end of story.

Okay, the next one...

"the conservative side wants to preserve and honor the innocence and positive sides of the Balto and Lion King milieux, and defend the family friendly nature of them in how fandom is expressed on this site (so that EVERYONE can be here without any entanglements or issues...not just those who want to write or draw whatever they feel they are entitled to).



And the liberal side seems to want to preserve the freedom to express their fandom for the Balto and Lion King cartoons in whatever way they see fit, because that's the nature of (some of) the world today, and because it's politically-correct, it's risqué, it's "exciting" (because, deep down, we all know it's not accepted in any normal society, which makes it taboo and, therefore, all the more enticing), and because "HRMPH! No one can tell ME what I can and cannot submit here! Don't you DARE presume to censor ME! " Thus imposing their own views on freedom and liberty, based upon their interpretation of, say, U.S. or British law, and forcing that down everyone else's throats...presuming that those laws apply here, in an international community on the internet. And yes, just as the liberal gang can accuse the conservative gang of "censorship" and "forcing their views down our throats", so can the conservative gang accuse the liberal gang of "thought policing" (by attempting to demonize or even criminalize conservative viewpoints about sexually-deviant behaviors and alternative sexualities) and "forcing their views down OUR throats" (by forcing conservative members to accept the presence of material which is deviant and offensive...and beyond the scope of this and most other fan websites)."




Preserve and honor the innocence and postive side? ...hmm

First of all I'm not going to speak of Lion King, because I don't know it as well as I do Balto, but...

Nikki: "...dat son of a..." Okay, so he didn't finish it but we all know what he would've said if he did... even I did when I saw the movie and I was a VERY sheltered sixth or seventh grader.

Steele's "I know where all the bones are buried."

Steele and Jenna in the boiler room

Oh, and here's an interesting idea, I really didn't realize this until I took screenshots to make an animation of it to run on my desktop... but you know the part at the end where Balto and Jenna run around each other several times... they're eyes are locked on each other's rear ends the entire time... that's not an accident or some innocent bunder, that is intent...

Balto had plenty of references in it and they weren't cloaked very well. Now, I say if the characters are good and innocent then placing them in a bad world will make them even more so... right? ...or maybe not, maybe, *le gasp* Balto might actually mess up, make a mistake and cheat on Jenna, oh the horror, oh the inhumanity the unjust depiction of the characters.... yeah okay, think that all you want... perfect character's are horrible dispicable abominations of writing unless you're talking about Jesus Christ, and that's a person even I wouldn't tackle as a character... so simply put, if your character is perfect it is a bad idea. Even Aniu isn't perfect in my stories and she's a freaking arch-angel... you must have bad to recognise good, you must have yin for the the yang to fit. The ballance of good and evil is not something that can be tipped in either direction without drastic consequences ...and believe it or not, unwillingly our characters sometimes tkae on aspects of themselves that we as writers did not plan for. I was talking to BW the other day about her lion king story... one of her characters is ehibiting signs of schitzophrenia, not something she planned on, she didn't even plan for him to have a mental disorder... but he's exhibiting the signs all the same... whether willingly or unwillingly, the human mind cannot comprehend perfection, and cannot begin to identify with a perfect world or character. It's just something about the human pysche that will not allow it. As to us forcing ANYTHING down your throats you couldn't be more wrong or misguided. We're asking to be left alone, we're not telling you you have to read such material, in fact we're even warning you that it's there so that you can choose to NOT read it if that's what you want to do. As writers here on Baltosource I beleive we have given, and given when you have asked... first we were to put warnings in our stories (we were asked, it was never made a rule) so we said, okay, sure, we'll do that. Then we had to rate our stories, again, okay, we'll do that, no discussion. Then it was new rules for fics... there was some discussion on that, but we came to a compromise and again said, okay, we'll accept that to keep the peace... but you know what, come after an entire genre and it's time to take a stand, it's time for the writers of Baltosource to stand up and say we've had enough of these misguided, psuedo-religious perfectionists trying to set rules barring us from writing our stories. Any other writers that feel the same way out there, stand up and say so, this is our only time to defend ourselves from this ridiculous offensive.

Up until now we have had the freedom to post these types of stories... your want to ban them pushes in on our freedom, that's all I'm saying on that subject.

Ah, now the fun one...

"Equating an attempt by however few or many people who are members of this site, to see sexually-deviant material banned and removed from the site, with racial hatred and forced relocation is not only highly inappropriate, enflammatory and utterly unjustified, but it is an extremely poor comparison. Legally, morally, ethically, there is absolutely no similarity. And that was extremely low."

There is an extremely good comparison there... think of the stories that writers here on Baltosource would have to "relocate" as that race of people, because it is PEOPLE we're talking about here JC ...you're telling them, it's okay for your stuff to exist, just not here... am I the only one that sees a parallel ...please someone tell me I'm not. ...as for it being low... hey, sometimes you gotta hit below the belt to win the fight.

Okay, on the "official" comment... I'm orking with Universal on this one... they've been to this site, they like my work, and they are interested in it being an OFICIALLY LICENSED PRODUCT of Universal Studios... can't get much more official than that can you?

I already dealt with the warning thing before, but I'll say it again... watch your words... BW has done NOTHING in this topic to deserve diserespect, so everyone here will respect her as much as she does you, or I will report you, nough said on that one.

Wow, this is a book hm? ha ha

Oh well, this is important... if I need to write a book to get my point across... then so be it. Have a pleasent day, and God bless!

- LCpl Anthony E. Rotramel, USMC, Sep.
(RTW)

I'll believe it when I see it, you puffer fish.

Highly uncalled for, DT...


Anyway, this topic is soon turning into a flamefest. Calm it down, people. There should be no reason for this topic to get locked, but your - and our opinions conflict here, so it's only natural that it creates a bad atmosphere.

Regardless; keep calm and mature and try to respond with posts that are friendly.

Hey, watch it there Dingo... Steet is a great guy, and not someone who we should be aiming our arrows at. He loves this site and the community we have here, he doesn't want to see it split in any fashion... I understand that one.